Can't get rid of hiss

subversive

New member
Hi there, I see some pretty smart people discussing things on here, hopefully someone can point me in the right direction here. I've got some equipment, most of it I owned previously but never used much. I'm trying to get myself set up to do some screen recordings, webinars, and podcasts for my business and I'm running into some challenges. Here's the details.

Equipment I own
Behringer Xenyx Q1202USB mixer
ART C3 condenser mic
Shure PG58 dynamic mic
Windows 10 PC with onboard sound, and Asus Xonar DG PCI sound card added. Audacity for recording & editing
various XLR and other cables.

Here's how I've got it cabled at the moment.
ART C3 mic into XLR1
2 track out to Xonar sound card line in
Xonar sound card output (the green one) to FX send on mixer (so I can hear myself through headphones)
Headphones connected to headphone jack on mixer

I've got the Level and gain set to 0 on channel 1, and main mix set to 0 on the mixer. Phantom power is turned on, and that's pretty much it. Seems like it should be pretty straightforward, but here's the problem. I'm getting a noticeable hiss which I can't seem to get rid of. I recorded to audacity and checked through a different set of speakers, just to make sure it wasn't some internal thing that I was only hearing on the headphones, and it's definitely coming out of the mixer. If I turn off phantom power and plug my Shure mic in instead, the hiss goes away, but I have to get up so bloody close to the mic to get an acceptable volume, that every breath sound, mouth click, and popping P is audible, so I'm thinking I'd prefer to use the ART mic (also, I think it's a better quality mic?).

So, I feel like this can be 1 of a few different options, let me know if I'm on the right track.
1. Crappy phantom power on mixer. I'm leaning to this, since there's no hissing problem when using the dynamic mic
2. Crappy XLR cables. I tried different cables, no change, but they were both cheap cables, so this is possible, I guess?
3. Mic problem with the C3. It's the only brand new piece of my kit, so could still be returned if I determine this is the problem.
4. Something I'm not thinking of, or a cabling problem. It would be awesome if this was the real solution, so I don't need to buy anything else... :)

I don't mind getting a new mixer or a USB interface for my computer (the USB interface on the Behringer mixer produces this unbearable hum no matter what I do, so I've given up on that already). This is stuff for my business, so I need to be able to produce good quality sounding recordings. I did some other searching around the web and a lot of people seem to say the Behringer mixers are crap, so is this my most likely culprit?

Thoughts on my process and/or suggestions?
 
So yeah the gain is set at the middle point is what I meant.

So would a decent interface allow me to bypass the mixer altogether? Do I even want that? One thing I'd like to do is be able to record Skype calls as well, and I was reading about setting my voice channel left and Skype channel right, so that I can edit them more easily in audacity.
 
Considering the gear that you already have, I think it would be worth a little experimenting and troubleshooting with using the Behringer mixer as an audio interface. Try plugging it into the same outlet as the PC. If it's on a different ground than the computer, it can definitely get noisy.

If the mixer is a lost cause, then it's time to go shopping for an audio interface. You've already experienced how awful consumer and gaming sound cards are for recording. An interface will provide preamps, good converters, and much lower latency than the sound chip on your computer.

Then I'd consider moving away from audacity. Mainly because it doesn't support ASIO, which would allow fornmuch lower latency while Monitoring and recording.
 
Alright hi, I'm back. I was in Long & McQuade yesterday, and I picked up a Steinberg UR44 interface. It came included with a copy of Cubase AI, so I thought I could kill 2 birds with one stone. So, now here I am at home, and I still have this hiss when I record anything using the condenser mic. I installed all the proper drivers and the device shows up correctly in Cubase with 4 tracks. I press the +48v button for the channel where the mic is plugged in, and in order to get any kind of audible levels, I have to turn the gain up to about 3/4 full (like, speaking, really projecting, with the gain at 3/4 I get in the -10dB range for my voice. If i talk 'normal', 3-6 inches from the mic, the levels are more in the -20dB range). I understood I was supposed to be trying to get as close to 0dB as possible, is that right? Anyway, there is a constant hiss at around -50 or -45 db with the gain at 3/4. If I turn it down to midpoint, the hiss is around -60dB. I can really hear the hiss when the gain is at 3/4, but is that -45 or so dB hiss going to be something that comes through audibly on the final recording?

I've double checked and made sure the interface is plugged into the same power bar as the computer. This whole process is driving me crazy, who knew it was so hard to get decent sound. Other ideas? Am I on the right track?
 
Alright, gimme a bit and I'll work through those suggestions. Couple things I can answer right away...
- the room is an office in my house, AKA the computer room, aka the music room. The fans on the computer are somewhat loud, so I thought there was a possibility that part of this problem is just room noise
- the 4 lights in the room ceiling (recessed pot lights) are a combination of LED and CFL, so, uh, yeah...

How do I check if the mic has moisture?

Maybe I'm trying to hard to get my levels close to 0. I'll try some stuff, and post a couple clips (if I can figure out how to export from Cubase, holy cow is it ever a complicated beast compared to Audacity).

Back soon, thanks!
 
Recording at 24 bit or 32 bit there is no need to crank the input gain up that high, I aim for peaks that are at about -12 on the DAW's meters

Maximizing the final level is a step best done later in post editing
 
Ok, here's a sample recording. This is plugged into a different USB port. Everything except keyboard and mouse are unplugged from USB.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1jtcc0nOl1beUFwZExwSE9TdGc/view?usp=sharing

Basically, it's super quiet, and I have to turn my volume way up to hear it at a normal level, at which point the hiss is very audible.

Here's a new recording with the new USB driver, don't think any improvement.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1jtcc0nOl1bZVJkM3U1WXViRW8/view?usp=sharing

Firmware updated from V2.00 --> V2.11, recording below, still no improvement from what I can hear.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1jtcc0nOl1bdWRtYnRheWdiOHc/view?usp=sharing

Thoughts?
 
Fans on the computer are a possibility. It's surprising what a mic can hear that your unaided ears can't. I can't normally hear the quartz clock on my wall ticking, but plug in a condenser mic, listening with headphones, and it's clear as day.

The lighting isn't in the immediate vicinity of the work area, so less likely they may be the issue. Turn them off and see anything changes.

Moisture on the mic capsule sometimes has a random rushing wind sort of sound, but could as well a hissing. If the room has been fairly dry, probably not a problem.

I have the mic set on the pattern which is not supposed to pick up noise behind it, fwiw.
 
I moved the mic about 6 feet away (as long as the current XLR cable will reach), still in the same room though, no change.

I then plugged a longer XLR cable in and took the mic and stand into the room next door. I don't think it's better, you can clearly hear the difference in the room, but the hiss is still there.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1jtcc0nOl1bNEdHQlg5cTZwZk0/view?usp=sharing

I put the included sock over the mic head as well for the last few tries, no change.
 
do you have access to another condenser mic to try? using the interface will give you better preamps than the mixer, is there a music store nearby you could take the interface and laptop to and try some different mics? the condenser mics will always be hotter than a dynamic but usually better quality. but it should be fairly quite, I know the ones I use will pick up things I cant hear, like a ceiling fan or the AC kicking on, but you shouldn't have a constant hiss. :wtf:
 
No access to another condenser, no. I just bought this one because I thought condensers were supposed to be better, but honestly this is such a pain, lol. Also, been playing around, and can't get Camtasia to play nice with recording from the interface either. The "UR 44 Line" input shows up, but the volume is so crazy low as to be unusable, and the last thing I want to do is to have to record audio separately for screen casts and edit them together. I think I'm just gonna return the mic and interface to Long & McQuade on Tuesday when the stores open again, I can live with the sound I'm getting from the analog setup.
 
So, getting frustrated with this whole setup. I plugged the Shure PG58 into channel 1 on the mixing board, main out to the line in on the Xonar sound card, recorded through Audacity. No noise. Someone convince me I need all this other equipment, because this honestly sounds pretty good to me....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1jtcc0nOl1bREFjOUtER3RDQTQ/view?usp=sharing
That sounds like progress. Now I haven't listened to the clips, but if the noise with the C3 was bad, couldn't you do side by side test now?
Both mics- pre gains set so with the same sound source volume and distance etc they both indicate the same levels on the mixer channels.
Now cover them up (if need be so they're not picking up much 'room noise.
Don't even record, just listen to each of them in head phones.
They should have about the same noise level.
If the C3 is still worse, maybe that pins down the mic as the problem.
And.. it's pretty likely the condenser ought to have needed less pre gain on the mixer than the dynamic mic to get there.

The 'divide, define and isolate variables and concur troubleshooting school of hard knocks.
 
I cannot speak to the UR-44, but I have a UR-824 and the preamps are really good, I have cubase 8, use 2 different snakes, 2 XLR patch bays with patch snakes, 3 condensers on my drum kit, and 1 for my main vocal mic. everything is quite as a mouse, without being able to rule out the mic as the issue, it's hard to say. I suspect the mic just because you have the same issue with 2 different sets of preamps, your problem moved with the mic, it also moved from the onboard sound card when you changed to the interface since the interface is a USB connection. :D
 
Yeah, it does seem like it's likely the mic. I still don't know if I need the interface though. For screencasts and podcasting, I feel like what I did in the last sample is going to work just fine. Also haven't figured out a good solution to the Camtasia issue with the interface.
 
A condenser mic is going to be better quality, when you return the interface, get another condenser mic and try it, remember, the rule is, once you spend money on recording stuff that money is gone, it has to be dedicated to recording stuff forever! when in doubt buy new shit! LOL:D
 
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