Closed back headphones? I'm getting bleed....

[Scooterj]

Wow what an incredible discussion. I am back after purchasing (with the right to return) The ATH-M40x closed back headphones. I set up my twin SCD mics aimed at my acoustic guitar and made a recording. The sound quality of the recording was super, BUT bleed of the click track was still there and really no different than with the open back AKGs I already have. It wasn't terrible but clearly audible.

I then tested the new headphones with only the click track playing while the two ear pads were pressed together but off my head and again the click was easily heard.

A couple of thoughts. My pair of SDC mics are quite close to my guitar and thus close to the headphones. The sound of the click is a fairly noticeable "clack" which is easy for me to hear, but also fairly loud which helps me keep on time in the finger picking piece.

So options are lower the click volume, change the click sound, place the mics farther away from the guitar and my head.

I don't want to use IEMs because my ear canals don't tolerate them well (discomfort despite all sorts of tips)

Also wondering if I should just send the new headphones back.

Thanks for any thoughts and advice!

 

[ecc83]

Or?
Soundcorset Tuner
That app gives a silent flashing metronome option. Or you can buy hardware ones which "pulse" mechanically which you put in your pocket.

Dave.

 

[HumanPlanet]

Agree with ecc83, a visual metronome might be the answer. This is pretty good and not expensive:



Search for it on your app store, iOS and android.

 

[Scooterj]

Further report on this adventure. I have noticed in Reaper that the default click sound I was using was a rather high frequency high transient sound. With the help of AI discussing the ins and outs of the physics of click tracks and bleed, I tried several experiments. I downloaded a free soft kick drum sound and loaded that into Reaper's metronome settings. This made a remarkable difference in that it was much lower frequency and did not bleed nearly as much. The transient was still pretty harsh since it is a drum after all.

Next experiment was to use Reaper's ability to set a sine wave pulse at 4ms and set a frequency of 100hz. This was exceptionally good and "felt" like a beat. There was virtually no bleed at all with the closed back AT headphones. I then noticed that I did not need to monitor my guitar playing through Reaper to hear my playing just fine. This also made it so that I could keep the volume of the new click "pulse" very low and still hear/sense it very well.

Interesting I found that this is a common technique in film work where bleed is kept to an absolute minimum. This is especially needed for me in that I am using a matched spaced pair of SDC mics very close to my acoustic guitar (which means they are very close to my head with the headphones on)

I think I have a solution and thank you to all the members who chimed in on this problem and gave me your experience which was so helpful!

 

[Serendipity Records]

Wow what an incredible discussion. I am back after purchasing (with the right to return) The ATH-M40x closed back headphones. I set up my twin SCD mics aimed at my acoustic guitar and made a recording. The sound quality of the recording was super, BUT bleed of the click track was still there and really no different than with the open back AKGs I already have. It wasn't terrible but clearly audible.

I then tested the new headphones with only the click track playing while the two ear pads were pressed together but off my head and again the click was easily heard.

A couple of thoughts. My pair of SDC mics are quite close to my guitar and thus close to the headphones. The sound of the click is a fairly noticeable "clack" which is easy for me to hear, but also fairly loud which helps me keep on time in the finger picking piece.

So options are lower the click volume, change the click sound, place the mics farther away from the guitar and my head.

I don't want to use IEMs because my ear canals don't tolerate them well (discomfort despite all sorts of tips)

Also wondering if I should just send the new headphones back.

Thanks for any thoughts and advice!

You should 100% change the click sound. If it’s a high-pitched, sharp metronome-ish sound, yeah, it’s gonna bleed.

 

[ecc83]

"nteresting I found that this is a common technique in film work where bleed is kept to an absolute minimum. This is especially needed for me in that I am using a matched spaced pair of SDC mics very close to my acoustic guitar (which means they are very close to my head with the headphones on)"

One's mind boggles! Are you playing the guitar like a violin? Selfie? My son regularly records himself playing Bach on a classical guitar and uses a pair of Lewitt LC 0404MP* SDCs at about 0.5 to 1m away and has no trouble with 'noises off' (though he is not using a click track through headphones)

*Into a MOTU M4 which is very quiet as indeed are the mics. (just add? Before the 0404s he used a pair of Behringer C2s. Not at all bad but QC not that good. Check them immediately upon arrival for noise. Fine on a steel stringer, marginal perhaps on a classical?)

Dave.