Can you eat a large diaphram mic?

[GT]

My recording enviroment insists that I close mic vocals, I'm talking mouth to grill.

Right now I use a dynamic mic.

Could I use a large diaphram mic in this same manor, and would there be an improvement in sound, over a dynamic?

GT

 

[H2oskiphil]

"Eating" an LDC will get you an incredible amount of proximity effect. If you're speaking or singing quietly, or have VERY good contol of your voice, you can use the proximity effect to make a fuller, richer sound.

That having been said, it may also sound like ass if you don't control it well.

 

[ron82]

also, dont forget to "eat" a popfilter, not the grill of the mic. because the diapragm does not like to be spit at.. !

yea and the proximity effect.. uh will be alot, if you handle your condenser like that

 

[GT]

Thanks ron, and H2,

So for mouth to grill, large diaphrams are out of the question?

Even with my dynamic, I'm down -8db on the low end, large diaphram would probably mean even more rolloff, yes?

Any thoughts on small diaphram condensers used in this manor, any gain in quality?

Or should I just be happy with my dynamic?

Thanks from the mic virgin, me!!

GT

 

[DJL]

You can't eat the mic... but you can get pretty darn close to a LDC if you put the mic switch in omni... no proximity effect. A pop filter may be a good idea too if you can't control your pops or keep from spitting in the mic.

 

[still4given]

My recording enviroment insists that I close mic vocals, I'm talking mouth to grill.

Right now I use a dynamic mic.

Could I use a large diaphram mic in this same manor, and would there be an improvement in sound, over a dynamic?

GT

What are you trying to achieve by micing so close. Out-singing the surrounding noise? Just curious.

You can get real close to a Shure KSM32. Especially with the pad switched on. I would assume the same would hold true for a KSM44, and maybe even a KSM27. Haven't tried the later two but I own a 32 and I know you can close mic with it. There is some proximity effect but I think it can be controlled somewhat with EQ and the bass roll off. I'd go to the music store and try one of hte KSM's Might be what your looking for.

I guess it depends on what Dynamic you're useing as to whether it will sound better. Everything is too subjective. Some dynamics are killer for the right voice and the right song.

Blessings, Terry

 

[mixsit]

...Even with my dynamic, I'm down -8db on the low end, large diaphram would probably mean even more rolloff, yes?

Any thoughts on small diaphram condensers used in this manor, any gain in quality?
GT

Handheld vocal mics (most of them) have an intentional low cut built in so they sound full at zero-to-a few inches. Note that some of them list curves for >12" that slope down, and a curve for up close that slopes up. Other mics, (LD's or SD's and dynamics can both apply here), can have a similar 'range' of bass change, but start out flatter or fuller farther away.
AT and Neumann make some LD handhelds.
Wayne

 

[GT]

Re: Re: Can you eat a large diaphram mic?

What are you trying to achieve by micing so close. Out-singing the surrounding noise? Just curious.

You got it, window air conditioner, no other choise in my garage/studio. Right here in Sunny Florida, no air conditioner=slow death.

Thanks, will look into Shures you recomended.

Really, I just thought that this subject hadn't been touched upon, and thought it was relevant!!

GT

 

[Mr Funk]

Choosing Omni will obviously get rid of the proximity effect, but will not help with your noisy room problems!

Have you thought about building a makeshift isolation area, by buying a few shop style clothes rails and hanging some duvets over them? Don't make the area too small though, or that Florida heat will melt you!

You can also use a noise gate pre or post recording? This in conjunction with close(ish) miking will hopefully do the trick?

 

[GT]

I think I'll just stick with what I have, maybe the grass isn't greener.

Could it be that a dynamic mic is really the only way to go, for mouth to grill recording?

I'm not that thrilled about changing a thing in my recording studio, it is what it is noise wise.

Yet noise is not a problem in the final recoding, as long as the mic is right up against your lips.

Who knows maybe this is the best way to record vocals anyway, noise or no noise? UH OH can of worms has been opened!!

Still I would love to try a large diaphram mic in this manor, just to hear what the differance would be.

GT

 

[Innovations]

1. Don't try to out-sing room noises. Generally it is a losing proposition.

2. Condensers are very detailed and unforgiving. Putting one that close to your mouth will pick up all sorts of mouth noises.

3. Breath moisture from that close up will be harmfull to a condenser.

 

[Richard Monroe]

I think you should consider a hand held condenser, such as AKG C-900, Audio-Technica M89R, Shure SM86 or Beta 87a. These are condensers that are designed for the application you are describing. Lips to grill on a studio condenser- bad idea. Bad for mic, sounds like hell.-Richie

 

[chessparov]

GT, what make and model of dynamic microphone are you using right now?

Chris

 

[GT]

GT, what make and model of dynamic microphone are you using right now?

Chris

Please don't laugh.

I'm using a Electro Voice Cobalt C0-9, running through a Fostex VM0-4 digital mixer, the Fostex also provides the EQ for the mic.

I use -8db on the bass, and +4 on the high end. Not sure what the shelving is for the bass and treble.

Anyway I think it sounds pretty good, but theres allways that wondering feeling, is there better.

If you want to hear this mic set up in action.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/gt/singles

Listen to song: Badge

Try to hear past all the other short comings, and listen to the mic. I used it exactly as I described above, with mouth to grill.

I'd love to hear a mic critique, never had it before.

GT

 

[DJL]

GT, we don't laugh on this forum... we just help (or bicker).

 

[chessparov]

I like the C09, had one for a while.
Good vocal mic IMHO.

Unfortunately, the neodymium's (including Shure Beta's) and I don't get along as well vocally, as other choices on my voice.
Ain't the mic, it's me (mild sibilance).

GT, I'm trimming down the mic "cabinet" at home. Considering putting one of the EV RE16's up for sale, as there are two of them, and need only one. It would be an excellent complement to the (brighter) C09 you already have, they're smoooth.

A number of EV's microphones, like this one, have their patented
"variable-D" feature, so you can eat the microphone more close
up.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll "PM" (private message)
you with the sales details. This is a real "sleeper" vocal mic and
can be had for cheap from me, for what I paid used for it on e-bay.
(sell for $180+ new, if you check the internet)

Chris

 

[Mojo Cracker]

LD condenser + Noise Gate = problem solved.

Dynamic mics just aren't that dynamic for recording, compared to a decent condenser. And decent condensers are out there, and CHEAP! So are good noise gates!

 

[littledog]

My recording enviroment insists that I close mic vocals, I'm talking mouth to grill.

Right now I use a dynamic mic.

Could I use a large diaphram mic in this same manor, and would there be an improvement in sound, over a dynamic?

GT

You never specified condenser mics, just large diaphragm - and therein may lie the answer. try an EV RE20 or RE27 - large diaphragm DYNAMIC mics. you can plaster your lips right up against them. Radio stations use them all the time for their DJ's- and we all know how much DJ's love proximity effect.

 

[DJL]

Re: Re: Can you eat a large diaphram mic?

You never specified condenser mics, just large diaphragm - and therein may lie the answer. try an EV RE20 or RE27 - large diaphragm DYNAMIC mics. you can plaster your lips right up against them. Radio stations use them all the time for their DJ's- and we all know how much DJ's love proximity effect.

Or the SM-7.

 

[mixsit]

Make yourself a quiet absorbent corner, three sides and top, or a V to sing into. That would probably get you more that half way there. You'll want about three or more inches of fiberglass or similar, on a solid backing- a wall or, with stand-alone on plywood, which double as variable acoustic thingies, and as bass traps as a bonus.
Probably about $150 in materials. ...and some sore knees if you don't have a shop. (Trust me on this one. I do mine in the firkin drive way.
Wayne