Can someone help me with Recording Trombone??

[darnold]

Im gettin pissed about trying to record the trombone. Ive tried everything that i know of the record and make it sound good, but all i get is a week, distorted, etc sound, even after EQ and compression.

Ok, heres my setup, Mackie 1604 VLZ, Delta 44 Soundcard, Sonar (or Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.03 too), ive tried recording it on both a SM-57 and my AT4033.

Now heres the thing, when i record the trombone straight in with the AT4033 and 2 meters away, i get a powerfull, but a very distorted/tinny sound. If i record it the same way but off axis, i get a decent clear sound, but not as powerfull nor warm as i want it. Tried the same techniques on the SM-57. The SM-57 sounds a little better then the AT4033. But the thing im trying to figure out, is ive heard a recording of a trombone, the guy used an AT4033, he said it was 2 meters directly into the mic, and the sound of the trombone was perfect. And no, its not the player because i have heard recent recordings of him from a pro-studio, and it sounds perfect too.

I dunno what the deal is, but im really starting to get pissed off. Anyone have any ideas for me?

Darnold

 

[sonusman]

I tried using the Mackie pre's on horns before. They just about ripped my head off!!!

Try an ART Tube MP.

Ed

 

[Shailat]

I also think it has nothing to do with your mic's and placment as you are doing all the right things.
Off axsis on the condenser and direct with a sm57.

It could be the pre's or the room.

 

[GrooveBassman]

I'm not a mic or board guru by any far stretch of the imagination. But I am woodwind brasswind repair tech. One thing I have to say about any wind instrument is that they are extremely dynamic. I don't know but I would monitor the input gain and see if your player isn't playing louder during recording than when he is just doing the sound check. I'm a bassist and I didn't notice until a live sound guy pointed it out but us semi pro types tend to play louder in songs than when we are sound checking alone. And another thing about pro wind players is they spend literally thousands of hours developing their timbre. With that said flat response is a good thing. EQing to a point that would mask their true timbre is bad. I pissed off a flute player very badly by just suggesting adding a little reverb to give it a concert hall feeling. Horn players want an accurate picture of their sound as heard live. This is true especially when it's an audition type recording. Sorry about the rant I've just spent the last 2 and a half years learning the craft of repairing instruments. And the one thing I've learned is ALL wind players are extremely picky.

 

[sonusman]

I also think it has nothing to do with your mic's and placment as you are doing all the right things.
Off axsis on the condenser and direct with a sm57.

It could be the pre's or the room.

I can agree with this to a certain point Shailat. But, you I feel the 4033 offers a much brighter tone overall then the 57 in this application. I never concern myself too much with overdriving the 4033 a bit with brass instrument because it seems to distort fairly well. The 57 seems to get a bit muddy when you hit it hard.

I think it is the pre in this case. I only PREFER a Mackie pre when I need to thin out a sound a bit. The ART has a nice full sound that seems to work with brass pretty well. I did all the Heavy Brothers recordings with ART's and 4033's on the brass and most people thought the horns were excellent sounding. The damn producer made me even take a tad of high shelf off them at mix (a mistake I thought..but he was paying me!). But the stuff removed was only ear candy, the tone was not significantly changed.

I haven't tried a 4050 on brass yet. Will have to try that next time I get a horn band to record (unfortunately, a rarity around this town.....) I think the bit of extra mid presence over the 4033 MIGHT be a cool sound.

I agree too with the room deal. Bad room=phase cancellation at the mic with distance micing. If you don't have a great acoustic room, better to have a dead room for brass because you are going to use distant micing.

Ed

 

[Shailat]

If he cant change his pre.........

I never tried the 4033 on brass...could be a good choice.

I think that if it sounds thin with the sm57, moving it off axsis will warm it up a bit . You need more room sound to warm it up a bit.

Also the wind coming from the bell has a tendency to cause pops and something I would describe as stuffing the mic.
Maybe he should try a combination of the sm57 a bit off axsis and the 4033 as an ambience in the room and merge the 2 with mostly the sm57 and a drop of 4033.
Just carefull with phase canc.

If you can play it and have somebody else you trust listen to your playing while slowly moving his head around the instrument but covering one ear first, you might find a better place to mic it other then the obvious "bell".

It's important to know that if people use a single pre for all their recordings, the sound of the mix- instruments tends to become one dimensional - one color. It's always good to own at least 2 different pre's if you can afford it .

I'm not a brass player but could it be your personal tone? instrument?

 

[Sabith]

As a T-bone player meself, I just have a couple questions........

1. How long have U been playin/how often?

2. Do all the notes sound distorted??

3. What is the distortion like??? heavly, light, crackles, pops......ect

4. What style are U playing??

and I have also had many a prob recordin my t-bone and I'm just about to purchase a new mic after I get a quick review from Blue Bear...... he bought it and I'm awaiting the results............

Sabith

 

[darnold]

Actually i fixed the problem

Ive been playin for 5 years. I play all the time and practice all the time. Im playing ska/jazz style. I fixed the problems i was having. I used the AT4033, and was about 1 foot away instead of 2 meters. Helped alot but didnt have a warm enough sound but it was really powerfull. So i tried moving it off axis a bit and it sounded just the way i wanted it. What i was getting before was like a tinny distortion. It sounded more like i was putting out more SP then the mic could pick up. I dunno how getting closer fixed it, but it did . If you are planning on buying a mic for just the trombone, i would recommend the AT4033, but actually i believe AKG C3000 is better for that kind of stuff (although i have not tested) because it is more of an instrument mic then a vocal. But ask Sonusman, he has alot of exerperience with the AT4033 and he favors them for trombone. And i have also heard some recordings of his where he has recorded a trombone with the AT4033, and it sounds great. But he also had a nice ART Tube Pre instead of the mackie pres.

Also, one problem i was having to, is i was comparing to other recordings of my used by different mics i did in studio a few years ago. Didnt necessarily sound better then the AT4033, but had a different sound and what i was trying to do was add more trombone to that recording i did a few years ago. It just didnt match.

Well im out.

Darnold

 

[Sabith]

hmmmmmmmmm.......... I might think about getting the AT4033......... but I'm aimin a bight higher at the Beyer 160. I'm just waitin for Blue Bear's review of it before I go out and buy one for myself.

Sabith