Cakewalk&PC Recording Question... PLEASE HELP!!

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saruin

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hi.

i'm thinking of getting cakewalk pro 9. being a newbie, i don't think i would be able to even make use of all the cool features that sonar offers. i don't even know what dxi synth is...

before asking questions, here's what i have and what i want.

i have a keyboard (w/o synth), a guitar & an amp, an acoustic guitar, a bass guitar & an amp, a shure 57 microphone, boss gt3 guitar effects unit, and a computer with a not so impressive sound card and a decent cd burner.

i'd mostly record rock songs with heavy usage of electric guitar and make them into mp3s and CDs. so i would need some kind of drums software or something. (pro 9 deluxe comes with a drum studio? what's that?) also, i'd need some decent piano, organ, classical string instruments, sitar, accordion, harmonica, ...sounds. the most important thing to me is the sound. both miked and digital. i've got about $1000~$1500 to spend.

so here are my questions.

if i buy cakewalk pro 9, what else would i need? i know that i'd need a better soundcard. i also understand that i'd need a preamp for mic recording. besides a soundcard and a preamp, what else do i need? any suggestion of a particular model/option?

so far (with limited research and knowledge), i'm considering cakewalk pro 9 deluxe, m-audio omni studio w/ delta 66 soundcard, steinberg wave lab.

i tried to read threads in HR, but there're simply too many of them, and i don't know where to begin. any book i can read except for cakewalk power (which just ordered from amazon)? any search suggestion? any webpage? what's a good place to begin for a newb like me with cakewalk-home recording?

thanks a lot in advance. your help is greatly appreciated.
 
I humbly suggest that you don't get Pro Audio 9 at this point. If you're new to it, why not just get SONAR? At some point you're probably going to want to upgrade to it anyway, and you'll have saved yourself some money and hassle. Exchange Cakewalk Power for SONAR Power.

I guess it depends on the specs of your computer, too.

That said, sounds like good stuff you're choosing. What's the "not so impressive sound card?" Are you planning on keeping it for use as a MIDI sound module? You are of course aware that the Delta has no MIDI synth (nor do any of the crop of similar audio interfaces; only the consumer gaming level cards, with a few notable and expensive exceptions, have a MIDI sound module).

The "drum studio" in Cakewalk Pro Deluxe is Drag and Drop Drummer, but it's a limited version and the full one cost $50-60, and even at that it's a limited set of loops. They sound great but there isn't a huge amount of variety. Or maybe you are talking about the Session Drummer MIDI plug-in. That is much more versatile out of the box, but it's a bit clumsy to use and it generates MIDI drum parts so you need somet of sound-generating hardware.
 
thanks a lot for your reply, alchuck.

i heard someone (i forgot who or where) say that being released recently, sonar's stability isn't as good as pro 9. that was another reason why i thought about getting pro 9 over sonar...

and in fact, i presumed omni-studio soundcard had some sort of midi synth. so now i understand, to get a better sound, i'd have to spend more bucks on some sound-generating hardware... right? if that's the case, i guess i'd have to spend the majority of my budget on it since sound is the most important criteria for me. any suggestion? any place i could go to learn more about them?

my soundcard is the stock yamaha soundcard that came with my dell computer about 2 yrs ago. my bro is using the computer now, and i forgot the exact model name. but i don't think i'm gonna use it as a midi sound module.

i'm planning on upgrading my computer, too. if i'm better off with sonar as you suggested, i guess i'll upgrade my computer accordingly.

and talking about upgrading the computer, i heard i'd need a wdm drive to utilize sonar fully. would i be able to add a wdm drive onto omni-studio? as you can see, i haven't got a slightest idea about wdm drives. :D if i can't, which models with wdm are available, and which would you suggest?

and finally, recording from my microphone to omni-studio to cakewalk... would that work nicely without adding anything more?

sorry i've got too many questions...
once again, i'd be grateful if you could share your insight or opinion.
 
I am not positive, but I think...

If you buy Cakewalk 9 and upgrade to Sonar, you might save a chunk of cash. Cakewalk 9 these days is going for dirt cheap, Like
$170 ( I paid $350 last year). You can upgrade to Sonar for $150.

Should be cheaper than buying Sonar Straight out.
 
Pay no attention to that last thread. Sonar is $299 at Sam Ash, at that price you should probably just get it.
 
Sonar seems as stable to me as PA 9 was. But I haven't tried to install WDM drivers, I'm waiting until they stabilize.

That's WDM drivers, not drives. Drivers are the software programs that allow computer peripherals to work with the computer's operating system. WDM (Windows Driver Model) is the generic name for a new Windows driver architecture that allows faster handling of audio data, among other things.

SONAR works very well with the older MME-type drivers, too, but WDM offers lower latency, allows DirectX plug-in effects (software progams that work within SONAR to provide audio processing functionality like reverb, compression, delay, and so forth) to be automated and used in real-time, and allows new DXi (DirectX instruments, plug-ins that actually produce sounds, that is, plug-in synths and samplers, etc.) to be played in real-time.

The DXi give you a way out of your MIDI sound module dilemma if your computer is fast enough to record a reasonable number of tracks, plug-ins, and DXi synths as well... the DXi use the audio output of the soundcard so you won't need extra hardware.

SONAR comes with a 30-eval of LiveSynth, which allows you to play Sound Fonts. To get the full version is something like $50 or so.

SONAR XL includes a really fantastic DXi called Tassman and a guitar amp modeler plug-in called ReValver along with everyhting SONAR comes with.
 
thanks a lot, alchuck. your replies were really helpful.

about the drivers, are they software products that i'd need to buy? and does the omni-studio soundcard have the audio output that could be used with dxi?

it seems like learning more about sonar is a good place to begin. i ordered sonar power from amazon, and i intend to read it before i make any decision. i guess reading it would make things much clearer.

it also seems like i'd need to research more on soundcards since the dxi option you described compared to getting a new sound-generating hardware sounds more reasonable and inexpensive. (would those plug-in's, sound fonts, etc. be upgraded periodically for sonar?) i'd read threads in the soundcard section, but is there any other place i could go to learn about soundcards (general info/different products)?
 
by the way, i loved the guitar tone of 'kaching'. really nice. :)
 
No, you don't have to buy drivers. Drivers for common devices that have been around for a while are typically included on the Windows installation CD, and they are also included by the manufacturer on a floppy or CD. Like any software the manufacturers are always revising drivers to improve this or that or solve some odd problem or another, and the latest drivers are usually available on the manufacturer's website.

If you look at M Audio's website you will probably discover that the WDM drivers are still labeled BETA, meaning they are not "offically" released, they are still in the pre-release test phase of development. This appears to be the case for nearly every card manufacturer's WDM drivers, by the way.

AS far as plug-ins, sound fonts. etc. being revised for SONAR, it all depends. Cakewalk has a set of plug-ins that come with it, and those would be upgraded along with SONAR updates, I suspect. Others, like the Tassman synth and ReValver with SONAR XL, are not made by SONAR, so upgrades are likely to be through the makers of those products, and might or might not cost money, just like upgrades to any software application (often if it's a bug fix, patch, or mainteneance upgrade, it's free; new versions with significant changes and feature additions cost some money). Sound Fonts are just sound sets, they wouldn't be likely to be revised.

For more about soundcards etc., here's a few links I found helpful last year when I started doing all this stuff:

http://www.audioforums.com/
http://www.pcrecording.com/
http://www.prorec.com/

There are others but those are among the most helpful


Finally, thanks for the kind words on the song...
 
i have no idea what reference monitors are.
ha...haha... :o

umm... could you tell me what those are?

i guess i need to read the book before asking so many questions.
 
Monitors are speakers, very accurate and uncolored speakers, unlike consumer speakers which are usually hyped to make things sound good. You can arguably record pretty well without them, but getting a decent mix is very hard. I used to pooh-pooh the importance of this until I got a pair myself -- I used to use a pair of small Bose outdoor speakers. When I bought a pair of Alseis M1 Actives last year, I couldn't believe how much more detail I could hear.
 
i've narrowed down to a couple of options now after having done a little more research...

i guess i will either
1. get nothing (meaning no hard/soft synth) and try to use beta-wdm drivers and dxi provided by sonar, or
2. spend some more money and get a gigasampler.

if i get a gigasampler (thinking about gigasampler 64) now, would it be worth the money? i mean, would it be significantly better compared to dxi even after wdm drivers get non-beta?

also, to use a gigasampler, all i need is a gsif compatible audio card? would i need anything else than that?

and finally, i'm having trouble finding which forum to check out to learn more about gigasamplers. can anyone help me on that too?

thanks in advance.
 
oh, and about monitors...

i wonder if it would be worth getting monitor speakers when i know i wouldn't be able to turn the volume up to even a decent level...

i think headphones may suit me better, but as i pretty much don't know anything about monitors...

what do you think? would headphones do the job?

being a newbie to all of these, i'm asking this question here now, but i'll definitely check out mixing/mastering forum too.

and finally...

if i use either dxi or gigasampler w/ a soundcard that does not provide any sound of its own, would i still be able to use these soft synth sound when i do things other than sonar (such as watching a video clip, playing computer games. etc) ?
 
monitor speakers VS head phones

Head phones are the worst for mixing down to. You can do decent with a pair of flat response head phones but consumer grade headphones are not going to let you hear what is really going on to tape/hard drive let alone what is coming of the tape.

If you think you must use headphones you would want to go high end flat response. You see normal home use headphones, speakers and stereos bring up the highs and the lows and taylor the midrange. Midrange is very important to a mix as it is what make notes and words understandable. you need to hear what is there not what sony thinks you will like more.
on the headphones AKG makes a set of flat response headphones that are priced ok you might check them out.
I have a set of AKG K240DF phones and the are a little quiet but boy you can hear what is really going on.

Just remember most people buy 2 or 3 times before they get what they really need. It may be tempting to try the cheaper route but in the end the cheaper route is usually waisted money.
Do it right the first time and you will be money ahead.

Your gonna need headphones either way though so get some good ones with closed backs on them.
 
hi, Freudian.

thanks for your reply. i indeed was looking into AKGs. seems like they're pretty popular.

anyways, i tried to delete previous 2 posts, but didn't realize i had to do it within 333 min. after posting.

and for anyone who read this post : for further replies, please use the new thread that i just made called "a lot of questions... any help would be appreciated."

sorry for all these complications.
 
pro suite 9.0 is a pretty good deal right now. I don't know if sonar comes with all the plugins/effects. Keep this in mind though.
From what I have seen so far cakewalk does not support or upgrade it's past products very well at all. As a matter of fact they don't support their current products very well. Don't get me wrong I am very happy with pro suite 9.0, but it is pretty clear that it is as good as it is going to get unless I upgrade to Sonar.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If sonar is $50.00 to $100.00 more I would do it. If you can't afford it pro suite 9.0 will be fine as well. From what I hear the learning curve is about the same.
 
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