C414 style comparison - Warm Audio WA-14 and SE Electronics SE4400a

[DrewPeterson7]

tl;dr from the related thread - in the Warm Audio Mystery Box giveaway (more or less), I ordered one because of the dozen and a half eligible mics, there was only really one where I already owned a good quality take on the design, their C414 style, where I had a matched pair of SE4400a's.

So, sure enough, guess what showed up. :lol:

I did as fair a comparison between the two as I could here - I tried to match the mic positions as closely as I could, recorded both on the same performance, through matching mic pres with identical settings, and no other post processing save for volume matching the two tracks, and then some conservative volume maximizing on the master bus.



I WILL note that, while both mics were run through the same preamps with the same settings and were in very, very similar positions, there was a pretty perceptible volume difference here and I had to add about 10.5db trim to get the two tracks to audibly the same level. I did volume match them here; I think it's easier to compare the sound of the mics when they're audibly the same level, and knowing one is nearly 11db louder than the other (mic settings were identical, both had pad switches at -0db, both were in cardioid mode, and the low cut switches on the SE were bypassed) is itself useful. It does come out a little in the noise floor, and I think if you listen carefully especially at the very end you can hear a little more self-noise from the WA signal chain. If you're sensitive to this, that's worth knowing.

 

[Papanate]

Which Mic was the quieter one? It sounds to me that it was the Warm Audio.

 

[TalismanRich]

Wow, for me, the WA14 was significantly brighter than the SE. I heard much more "body" from the SE. The Warm pushed the string sound a lot more. If I had to choose one, it would be the SE.

I would expect there to be a big difference in volume. The sensitivity of the WA14 is 9mV/PA which is -41dB and the SE is 25mV/PA which is -32dB. Your adjustment of 10.5dB is right in the ballpark.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Which Mic was the quieter one? It sounds to me that it was the Warm Audio.

Yup, that one took almost 11db to volume match, which surprised me so much I triple-checked everything to make sure I didn't have a pad somewhere I was unaware of.

Wow, for me, the WA14 was significantly brighter than the SE. I heard much more "body" from the SE. The Warm pushed the string sound a lot more. If I had to choose one, it would be the SE.

I would expect there to be a big difference in volume. The sensitivity of the WA14 is 9mV/PA which is -41dB and the SE is 25mV/PA which is -32dB. Your adjustment of 10.5dB is right in the ballpark.

Hey, that's awesome, and makes me feel WAY less like I'm going insane. Broadly I agree - as I'd mentioned in the other thread, there were actually things I found kind of appealing about the high end of the WA, there's a bit of funkiness or... grittiness isn't the word, but it wasn't unappealing to me whatever it was. But, the SE had a fuller body to it and felt more substantial, and a bit of a neve-style EQ (any other context, I've got a pair of 551s wired up behind the CAPI preamps and I'd have engaged those, but I wanted this as neutral as possible) to boost the top end a hair and veeeery slightly pull back 360hz, and I thought I was getting a very, very comparable tone I liked more.

The SE4400 is still my second choice behind their VR1 ribbon, but in a rock context I usually double track rhythm acoustics and use one channel of each. They'd also work wonderfully in stereo I think, though for the music I right I rarely want "wide" acoustic guitars where I wouldn't rather just double track.

 

[CoolCat]

Sound is so funny, I was 100% in the WA vote, while the SE sounded so different it was amazing how big a difference a mic can make!
To me it sounded like two different guitars. There was a nice "warm" smoothness in the WA and the SE had the clarity, woody, sound maybe the sensitivity picking up more or more of the room.

Warm Audio is great stuff imo, the concept of having a "DIY" already done, and with years of mfg expertise under their belt now and increase to a 5 year warranty started in 2025 if I recall. Like a lot of company's they made it through the flaming and bashing for beginner offshoring mass sales QC needed etc... they do 100% QC supposedly now in Austin Texas per the factory video. WARM and a lot of the boutique did the drill deep gearhead stuff getting the parts quality up and the mystery capsule location?
I couldn't build one myself, due to my skills and patience with high end parts.

You could use those two mics and they might go together really well on a acoustic multi tracking, but if you only wanted one track , WA 414 sounded really smooth.
SE sounded familiar too. Totally different though, imo.
(excellent video too...great lighting and great audio)

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Sound is so funny, I was 100% in the WA vote, while the SE sounded so different it was amazing how big a difference a mic can make!
To me it sounded like two different guitars. There was a nice "warm" smoothness in the WA and the SE had the clarity, woody, sound maybe the sensitivity picking up more or more of the room.

Warm Audio is great stuff imo, the concept of having a "DIY" already done, and with years of mfg expertise under their belt now and increase to a 5 year warranty started in 2025 if I recall. Like a lot of company's they made it through the flaming and bashing for beginner offshoring mass sales QC needed etc... they do 100% QC supposedly now in Austin Texas per the factory video. WARM and a lot of the boutique did the drill deep gearhead stuff getting the parts quality up and the mystery capsule location?
I couldn't build one myself, due to my skills and patience with high end parts.

You could use those two mics and they might go together really well on a acoustic multi tracking, but if you only wanted one track , WA 414 sounded really smooth.
SE sounded familiar too. Totally different though, imo.
(excellent video too...great lighting and great audio)

For the factual details, I can confirm that both 1) there's a sticker on the box saying they come with a 5 year warranty, and 2) another saying "100% hand-inspected in Auston, Texas."

And thank you! Mine isn't one of the more expensive Martins and while 20 years ago it was the best I could afford (and, was my first "adult" paycheck, as a splurge for finally feeling like I'd made it), I do want to grab something a little nicer these days... but it's still a very good sounding guitar. The strings are actually... six month old Elixirs? I was tracking for a project I'm still in the middle of back in April I think and I haven't changed them since then, and honestly maybe I should have. But I cut this quickly when I had a brief window, and the WA-14 is now in my dad's hands so I won't have a chance to try again until the next time he's over here recording something. The "piece" was basically improvised, too, I quickly came up with a few discrete ideas and just went for it...

But, my thoughts are basically rhe same as yours. I actually really liked the high end on the WA-14, there's something really appealingly... gritty? Funky? I'm struggling for the right words, but it's definitely slightly but perceptibly more "hyped" in the high end here than the SE4400. The SE meanwhile is significantly louder (and, for it, has more headroom and a better noise floor) and definietly has a little more midrange and depth. I'd mentioned in an earlier post that I could get the two awfully close with a very modest tweak from a Neve-style EQ, so I'm not going to miss having the WA-14 around... but it was a really fun opportunity to compare the two, and my dad was stoked to get a mic upgrade for his acoustic guitar and singing!

 

[CoolCat]

Interesting mic. yeah, I hear you on the Eq tweaks ...

WA14 Capsule:
LK-12-B-60V Lens Kondensator
the capsule in the WA-14 is the key component that gives the microphone its specific sonic character, aiming to replicate the classic tone of the early 1970s "EB" circuit AKG C414 microphone.

• Design: It is an all-brass, edge-terminated capsule, which is true to the original coveted design.
• Materials: It features a 24k gold-sputtered, 6-micron NOS Japanese PET film (Mylar) diaphragm and all-brass o-rings and housing (no Teflon parts).
• Goal: The design aims to capture the smoothness, rich top end, and other sonic qualities of the original CK12 capsule while being more consistently and reliably manufactured than the original hand-made version
• custom CineMag USA output transformer.

It is widely assumed in the pro audio community that the Australian-based designer of 3U Audio, Guosheng Zhang, is the individual who either designed or consulted on the design of the "Lens Kondensator" capsules for Warm Audio.-(per google AI...so it must be true! right?)

$4800 for an original 414 with brass ring...on Vintage King... crazy prices these days...no wonder WarmAudios doing so well.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

$4800 for an original 414 with brass ring...on Vintage King... crazy prices these days...no wonder WarmAudios doing so well.

Yeah, the SE4400a is based on that same brass capsule design, as well. IIRC they're about $100 more than the WA-14, but I forget exactly - I bought a matched pair before covid and the subsequent wave of inflation, so it's been a while.

Funny story, only tangentally related - song I'm working on, I was relearning the melody and solo the last few days, and yesterday afternoon realized I'd missed a rhythm guitar part from my demo. I'd played it on an electric but had at the time kinda thought about playing it on an acoustic in the final version, and there were a few other acoustic parts in the song already at different places, so I pulled out my guitar and the notebook where I was keeping notes from the sessions and tried to find my mic/preamp/eq settings.. and couldn't find them anywhere. So, I grabbed the SE VR1 ribbon I thought I used, had a hell of a time getting it right, but eventually with a combo of positioning and input EQ got something that sounded close enough to the other acoustic parts that it wouldn't jump out... and was a couple sentences into jotting down notes when it occurred to me the acoustic parts weren't part of a second acoustic session where I overdubbed some acoustic rhtyhm parts to songs that I hadn't planned on having them, but were from the original acoustic tracking session, and I should go check those notes... and, sure enough, it was in there, and my memory was wrong and I'd been using the 4400. Switched mics, positioned it based on my notes, level-matched it as close as I could, and... boom, indistinguishable from the parts I'd cut like five months earlier.

Doesn't have much to do with the thread here, I guess, save that it was with a 4400a... and, I guess, that while I think in a vacuum I prefer the VR1 to the 4400, for the specific part in this specific song, the added high end sparkle went a long way to getting the rhythm sound I had in mind, and that having a couple mics that all work well on a given source, but in very different ways, really IS a cool thing to have at your disposal.