Better sound quality, more "depth", less noise, help me improve this setup

[Taylor_214]

Folks,

I'm a complete newbie to audio home recording. Until last November, i was using these plastic PC mics that came with old soundblaster cards to record acoustic/electric guitar and electric bass music. I upgraded to using a Shure SM57 mic, a Behringer UB502 preamp, and Audiophile 2496 audio card. Well, the sound improvement was huge over the plastic mic and on board sound card.

Now.....i've noticed that compared to many of the recording samples here, and as i've also noticed before, there's this background "noise" that is apparent if listening closely to my recordings. I record easy going music with acoustic/classical guitars, electric guitars, bongos and electric bass.

First off, i'd like to minimize the "noticeable" noise i hear in back of my tracks, add more depth to the sound, and provide an overall better quality to the recorded sound. I'm not looking to spend big money, but don't mind spending somethin reasonable that would raise the quality of recorded audio.

Thanks for providing some brands or products to start me off.

 

[Taylor_214]

Oops..btw, i use Cooledit Pro to record my tracks, using one SM57. I also own one SM58.
thx

 

[Leeking]

SM57 should cause very minimal background noise if any.

I guess most of your noise should comes from the preamp. (Beh*)

My advise is getter a better preamp... hey I have a Beh* 602 myself and now just use it to connect the speakers...

Depends on your budget, look into RNP, VTB-1 etc....

 

[chessrock]

Ah, Gainstaging, my friend. Gain staging.

Ensures that all signal levels throughout the recording chain are optimal. This translates to very low noise recordings with the widest possible dynamic range.

If it's external noise that you're having trouble with, then I'm afraid you're going to have to accoustically treat the room(s) in which you are tracking, or consider a quieter venue. Or just stop worrying about a little hiss. It ain't gonna' kill ya. he he.

 

[Son of Mixerman]

Ah, Gainstaging, my friend. Gain staging.

Ensures that all signal levels throughout the recording chain are optimal. This translates to very low noise recordings with the widest possible dynamic range.

If it's external noise that you're having trouble with, then I'm afraid you're going to have to accoustically treat the room(s) in which you are tracking, or consider a quieter venue. Or just stop worrying about a little hiss. It ain't gonna' kill ya. he he.

Gain staging and?



and another mic and recording acoustic things like drums, guitars and vocals in "stereo" tend to add the depth more than anything even before using digital reverbs.

If the hiss is really bothersome try gating it, eq-ing it or whatever else you can think of that is less annoying.

SoMm

 

[Taylor_214]

Folks,

Thanks for all your helpful comments. It's not surrounding/location sound that's the issue but some type of sound that is inherent, part of the signal, i guess. I recorded a classical guitar piece and if you turn it up a bit, you'll hear the "noise" i'm referring to. If you don't mind, pls listen to the song called "Recuerdos de Ti" under What's New in www.songphotography.com.

The noise gets louder when more tracks are added usually.

Leeking: I listened to your great songs and they're very quiet, too. I'm trying to attain that quiet background. I tried doing noise reduction/hiss removal, and it seems the sounds of audio changes. I'm learning how to do this but prefer to record the signal as clean as possible to start with. Would luv feedback/confirmation of what i'm talking about, check out the song please.

It's a bit of sound but driving me crazy. Most lay listeners don't even notice but for me...am i asking too much?

BTW, you can ignore my breathing sound in that song...told ya i'm learning!


Thank you again in advance.

 

[mrface2112]

if you're using condenser mics, they're going to pick up EVERYTHING. computer fans, the Simpsons from upstairs, the dog next door, you name it. having an absolutely QUIET recording environment is the first key to winning this battle. the more tracks you stack, the more you're going to notice the noise. the same goes for dynamics when you start having to crank the gain to get a usable level out of a quiet source (such as classical guitar).

secondly, i'd bet the preamps you're using aren't exactly quiet, either. Behri mixers/pres are usually "ok" for a couple tracks, but once you start stacking tracks, their "cheapness" becomes quite apparent. that's why most folks around here recommend against them.

hiss removal and noise reduction are not the answers. address the signal and environment BEFORE you hit record, not afterwards. all NR pieces pull out usable sound (usually high and low end) and many leave nasty transients when not used properly.


trust me, in order to get great, quiet recordings (especially when recording things like Classical Guitar), you need a fantastically quiet recording environment, as well as good mics and a lot of clean, quiet gain. from reading Leeking's posts over the last few years, i know he's certainly not using an Sm58 and a Behri mixer/pre to get that level of quality........

oh, and welcome to the end of your spending money......


cheers,
wade

 

[chessrock]

I had a listen to some of your stuff.

I didn't notice an overwhelming amount of hiss. You could certainly minimize it by using quieter microphones, quieter mic pres, and again, maximize your gain staging.

As a sidenote, I'd ditch that cheezy reverb / delay you got going on. Classical guitar should sound natural, in my not-as-humble-as-most-would-prefer opinion.

Here's some classical guitar I recorded recently that might be even noisier than yours:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1298&alid=532

 

[Taylor_214]

MrFace, Chessrock,

Thanks for the feedback on sound and song, too! Will take both to heart!

BTW, is this trend i'm on similar to what most would go thru in this hobby? Buy stuf that i've bought, sounds great initially, keep doing it, listen to others, find out it's not as good as others, and ......spend more money?? Just need to explain to the wife that..."No, this is normal...all folks starting out go thru this, until we hit something good.." At one time, i was happy with motherboard audio with direct plastic mic plugged into back of PC!

Thanks again! Love this board!!

 

[Phosphene]

Yea, I'm at work...........working........listening to your music on this computer and I can't hear it like I should, but it sounds good. I like the piece. Played it loud for the whole Hospital OR to hear.

I agree with Mrface about the Beri preamps you use MIGHT be causing your "noise/hiss". Maybe an upgrade to a DMP3 preamp and a condenser mic for doing the classical guitar thing.

Chess, I listened to Carlos' piece. Sounds good, can you devulge what exact guitar, mic(s), pre you used on that one?

 

[chessrock]

Chess, I listened to Carlos' piece. Sounds good, can you devulge what exact guitar, mic(s), pre you used on that one?

The main mic was an Audix TR-40 about 2 feet in front, plugged in to a Rane MS-1B. I also placed an Oktava MC012 as a secondary mic, over-the-right-shoulder, but pretty high (about 3 feet in the air, at least, pointed down). Plugged that on in to Sytek channel 1. I also used an Audio Technica 4050 going to Sytek channel 2 as a room mic (in the corner about 10 feet away).

Have no idea what kind of guitar he was playing.

 

[c7sus]

Chess, if you think that's noisy you need to come over to my room!

That's VERY cool. I liked the SHBlues too.

 

[Leeking]

Folks,
Leeking: I listened to your great songs and they're very quiet, too. I'm trying to attain that quiet background. I tried doing noise reduction/hiss removal, and it seems the sounds of audio changes. I'm learning how to do this but prefer to record the signal as clean as possible to start with. Would luv feedback/confirmation of what i'm talking about, check out the song please.

I happen to use a similiar setup to yours, SM57/SP-C1->Joemeek VC3Q->Audiophile2496
I don't use any noise reduction what so ever.

I tried dowloading your song, but it was too slow and large for me (9M!)

Can you give us a 128kps version.