Best Use of Budget for Studio, Equipment

[robn]

I started building a home studio about 2 years ago but got sidetracked <insert Ran out of money /insert> I've got a tiny bit of money now and I want to finish up.......would like some advice on things such as upgrading or building new DAW, audio interface, software upgrade, studio design, etc......

Total budget is just $3000 so please keep that in mind....

Here's my present setup:

Studio- built in the not-really-build "bonus room" above my garage.....house is 2 story, one of the upstairs bedrooms is right next to the studio but both my daughters are older and have moved out. Here are a few old pics:
Rough design:

There is insulation in all the walls and ceiling now

Just an example of the interior walls....also now has insulation in it

I need to finish framing the interior new wall.......then put 2 layers of 1/2" sheetrock on all walls/ceiling....tape and bed, texture, finish hooking up electrical (most of it is done), put in new floor, put in track lights.....the HVAC has already been tied in......

Studio questions: Should I build a separate control room or not? Space is pretty limited. Also, will 2 layers of sheetrock help that much?

Software is Sonar....right now I have Sonar 5 but am considering upgrading to Sonar 8. My present DAW was put together about 3 years ago:
XP Professional
P2 2.4 single processor
Gigabyte P4P800
NVidia GeForce2 MX400 64MB
2 Maxtor IDE 120GB each
1 GB RAM
Audigy2 SB Card

One of the bad limits here is a max of 2GB of memory that the board will support....which would then pretty much rule out any purpose for 64-bit OS. Second, the video card memory is low. I believe the board will suport 100MB SATA drives. I would also like to drive 2 monitors which I'm not sure how I could do that.....

Question: go to Sonar 8 or stay at Sonar 5? Build a new DAW (I could use the power supply, case, DVD/CD drives, and Audigy SB Card from the old DAW). I already have a 2nd monitor


Audio interface.......I just bought a Digitech GNX4 mostly for guitar effects but it does have an audio interface.....since I haven't tried it yet I don't know whether it would be sufficient......


I have an old CME UF70 76-Key Controller for MIDI so I would be probably using alot of Sonar's soft synths
Plenty of guitars
A few mics.
Marshall ValveState 50W amp
Event PS5 monitors

How would my $3000 best be utilized here? Sorry for all the questions but I'm just trying to get the most bang-for-the-buck.....the studio use would mainly be just for me and more in a songwriting/composing mode.

Thanks!!!!!

 

[Chili]

A few things come to mind.
What will you be recording in your studio when it is done?? Will noise or high sound levels be an issue for the family or neighbors?

2 layers of 1/2" drywall on the 2nd floor?? Hopefully someone has done load calculations. It might be okay, it might not. It is something you should know the answer to. You also might want to look at getting permits from your municipality. I did for my teeny tiny little studio and the inspector was a great help with advice and guidance. But do you need the sound isolation??? This opens a whole new can of worms that 2 layers of drywall alone won't solve. You can avoid the loudness and soud isolation by running your Digitech straight into your audio interface and not use your amp. This is what I do and get good results. Drums can be done in the box also with some great drum programs like ezdrummer. Everything is quiet outside the studio and the family is sleeping while I'm jammin' away.

If you're just going to be recording yourself mainly, then a separate control room is actually a detriment. Imagine having to run back and forth to start and stop recording in between takes or something. One room works great for your intentions. You just have to minimize room noise, like the computer, HVAC, etc... It's easily doable with some forethought.

About your computer, I think you mean a P4 processor. It will work fine. You should get another gig of ram and definitely two bigger hard drives. Keep one hard drive dedicated to the O/S and one for your audio files. 7200rpm is optimal. However, if you want to upgrade everything, it's really cheap to get a smokin' system these days.

I think you should get a separate audio interface and not use the digitech (as an audio interface). I have no experience with that particular model, but it's main task is guitar effects. Depending on what you want to do, there's a ton of options for you. I recommend browsing through Sweetwater's website and see what catches your eye. Keep in mind, a lot of interfaces will come with a "lite" form of a popular DAW software app. Most are pretty fnctional and can do just about everything you want. So spending more money on another DAW may not be necessary at this point.

The single most beneficial improvement you can do to your room is acoustically treat it. This controls how your room responds to sound. It's not the same thing as sound isolation. It's important and not expensive if you're a DIYer. Check out the Studio Build section for tons of info on treatment and studio building.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[robn]

Chili,

Thanks for the reply.....

I don't really record any "high volume" work......the only thing that won't be MIDI or ran straight into the audio interface is vocals and maybe a mic'd amp for guitar (but will probably use the GNX4 straight into Sonar).

The only way I know to do true load calculations is to have a structural engineer come up, and I did not do that......I did ask my builder about it and he said he thought it would be fine, but that's it......if I went with 1 layer of 5/8" that ought to save alot on weight (and time/money as well)......here is a pic of the house being built:

The plywood subfloor you see in the previous pictures sit on top of where the arrows show.

I kinda was thinking the same about a separate room.....might be more of a detriment.....

Since I'm a computer DBA and programmer, I'm always thinking I need a faster system What I will probably do is get the studio built and then if I have any money left over upgrade the PC or just build a new one.....

I'll study up and learn more about sound treatment.....most of my attention has been in keeping sound in, and I know that's not the whole equation.....


Thanks for your reply!

 

[Chili]

Honestly, I think the 2 layers of drywall will not exceed any load limitations, either, but I'm no structural engineer. However, one layer will probably be all you need. If you're doing everything in the box, or mostly in the box, I doubt you don't need to worry about sound isolation. Just a suggestion to rethink the need for sound isolation.

Sounds like you're in the same situation I was a few months ago. We recently had a house built and I put my studio in the garage. Here's a thread of my build:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=279814

Have fun. It's a great feeling when you finally get it setup the way you want.

 

[robn]

Looks good Chili, you did a good job......

I posted a couple of detailed posts on my studio build several years ago under the username of "WagTheDog".....had problems getting back in under that login so I'm using my original login which is robn.......I reread my old posts tonight....RICK KIRKPATRICK answered quite a few of my posts back then but I think my misunderstanding of decoupling probably annoyed him (which I don't blame him for).......I'll take some more pictures tomorrow and post them.....maybe they will make more sense than trying to explain in words....


Probably my biggest concern out of all this is one you touched upon....structural integrity.......I'd really rather not hear that crash at 2:00 AM and go out into the garage and find out my wonderful new studio has relocated itself in the garage on top of our cars There is no vertical support in middle of the garage.....there is a 2" X16" joist across the middle of the attic (studio area), one end sits on an outside wall, the other on an interior wall. There are 2"X12" joists between these which make about a 7' maximum joist span.

I built an interior wall on the north and south walls...the north wall is an exterior wall, the south wall is adjacent to the upstairs bedroom, the east wall is "knee-boarded"......I hope these were not unnecessary........the west side which is a 50 degree slant does not have any interior wall, it's just basically (outside to inside) shingles, plywood, and 2"X4"........I thought by building the interior wall and putting sheetrock straight onto the studs (with insulation between this interior wall and exterior wall, that I would be creating a 2-leaf design......now I'm not so sure....and the west "wall" is really a problem too.....I may have to use RC or RSIC or something......and my question from my "WagTheDog" posts were whether I needed to use RC for the whole room. Then there's the issue of the floor and decoupling there.

I feel at this point that maybe I need to shelf this project and get a structural engineer to check it all out.....of course, that will blow my budget and will put this project back another year or two, but right now I don't know whether the load is too heavy.

Very discouraging......

I posted several years ago on John Sayers site........I may go back there and repost

Thanks for your help

 

[robn]

Here's what I posted on John Sayers site, has a few more details and more recent pics:



I started building a studio about 3 years ago and, for various reasons, put it on hold......I'm ready to start it again but need to do things a little different and need a "refresher". I posted on this site 3-4 years ago under the username "robn" but couldn't get authenticated again so this is my new sig.....

My location - Abilene, TX, USA
Studio location - unfinished "bonus room" above garage, 2 story house.
2 rooms and bathroom upstairs, daughters have grown up and both moved away so it's rarely used.
Budget - $2000
Purpose - mostly single use (me) for songwriting/composing. Most input is DI into Sonar software....guitar may be mic'd sometimes but will probably be input with Digitech GNX4 inline.....acoustic guitar is Yamaha Silent Series and will be DI.......no drums (will use Sonar)......keys are MIDI controller.........only consistent live recording will be vocals

First of all, is this studio possible? I have no other options such as building outside due to financial constraints.....my main concerns are load bearing, decoupling, permit. I've read some of Rod Gervais book and on Page 52 he says "Reality is that you can't get isolation for a recording studio with a simple elevated wood deck. Period". Previous to that statement he was talking about concrete flooring so I didn't know if he was making his statement in connection with a deck over concrete or a deck period.......seems like in my case the garage would be an OK "sound lock".....but that's Question 1.

Question 2 concerns the permit......I have actually started building this project without one and I need to go take care of this.......I have a bad taste in my mouth from my experience with this aspect though (sorry Sharward) because I took my plans to the Permit office and they were of little help.....they gave no advice and didn't come out to take a look.....maybe my expectations were wrong, I don't know......since I've already got some done (interior walls framed, HVAC ran, electrical mostly ran) they might get pissed anyway. But since it's the law, I need to get this done.

Question 3 is load-bearing issues........if I hire a structural engineer my budget is blown right there........I talked to our one and only structural engineer about 3 years ago and to put it mildly, he was a real ass. I explained the structure and even showed him a picture of the house as it was being built. At the least I'll have to tear the flooring up since he apparently doesn't believe in construction pictures......again, maybe my expectation is wrong......

Here are a few pics and designs:
This is a rough drawing looking down:

This is a side view facing north (facing towards where the existing window is located (which is now sealed up)):

This is the west side knee-wall before insulation:

Ceiling before insulation:

Here are a couple of pics during the construction of our house:

The middle beam is a 2"X16".....one end sits on where the green arrow is.....the other side sits on the north exterior wall. The 2 sets of joists coming off the 2"X16" middle beam are 2"X12" spaced about 18" apart....the span on either side of the middle beam is about 7'.......hope this picture gives you some idea of the construction....I have put up a 1" sheet of plywood on top of the beam/joints and that's what you'll see in the next pics:

I took these pics tonight.....please excuse the mess in the studio room but you'll get the idea......the north wall has an interior wall that I built about 8" inside the exterior wall:

A full view of the north wall (where the window is now sealed up):

The south wall which is adjacent to one of the bedrooms.....this wall has an interior wall that I built about 10" inside the interior wall:

This is the base of the west wall.....this one does not have an interior anything......basically asphalt shingle, plywood, and beams, this wall is at an approximate 50 degree angle:

A shot of the ceiling looking north, so you are looking at the west and east side "wall"....the east wall has no interior either until it gets down to the knee-wall:

East wall showing knee-wall:

Looking south to the area where I will be adding another door leading into the studio:

Looking at the northwest corner:

Looking into the studio area from the 2nd floor hallway, showing the door going into the studio area (where there will be a second door on the left):

Hope these pictures help some.......maybe this is an impossible project, maybe not......there are several houses in our neighborhood (our next door neighbor is one) that has a 2nd floor bonus room....they had their builder (the same builder we had) finish out their bonus room.....in retrospect maybe I should have done the same....but I still would have had to modify it to make it a good studio.

 

[Chili]

Hey Rob, good pics. I don't see where the problem is. The room was initially intended to be a bonus room, so all the structural engineering stuff has been done already. I still say you don't need to worry about sound isolation, so no double layer drywall. Save your money, save some weight. You loudest phases of recording are going to be mixing down on monitors and vocals. If you're now playing your home stereo or singing in the shower and teh neighbors aren't complaining, you should be good to go.

If you're concerned about noise getting into the studio, you can make gobos and a portable vocal booth when you're tracking vocals. Build an iso box for your computer and slow down the air speed on your HVAC system. All of this will quiet your room significantly for vocal tracking.

As you quoted out of Rod's book, you can't isolate the 2nd floor of a wood structure. Your sound isolation scheme will be as good as the weakest link. In this case, probably the floor. So don't try to obtain good sound isolation. You don't need it for your intended use. Just build the room out like any other room and it should be adequate for your needs. This was my approach for the two studios I built and it worked great.

About your permit. My experience was probably a little more friendly than yours. The inspectors weren't too willing to offer advice before I got the permits. They looked over my crude drawing and were indecisive whether I needed a permit or not. I opted to get one for insurance reasons. When the inspector came out for the first round of inspections, he was very helpful and genuinely excited about my project. He told me what he would be inspecting on the next phase and what I needed to do to prepare. He found an attic space that did not have insulation and it should have and I got the builder to correct that for me. I guess every city and every inspector is different. If you build your studio like a normal room, you won't be surprising the inspectors with anything outside the ordinary and they will be conducive to working with you. IDK... ymmv... etc...

What do you think? good luck, man.

 

[robn]

Well, after giving this more thought overnight and today, I think my flooring is going to be my weakest link, so here's what I think I need to do. I think doing RSIC / hat channel on the west and east wall (down to the knee-wall) is probably overkill since the floor is going to be a problem anyway........I can't float another floor with wood or pucks because it would create a third leaf......I could add mass to it by adding another sheet (1/2"-1") on top of it, but I don't know if the extra weight would be worth the extra mass. I think I'm just going to drywall onto the studs with 5/8" or 3/4" drywall.

Is it best to have the wall drywall resting directly onto the flooring or is it better to have some type of barrier such as foam between the two? Same question for wall meeting wall.......




Thanks

 

[robn]

Chili,

Thanks for all your help.....I have moved this thread to the Studio Building Forum, thanks again!

 

[nomzz]

Interesting post,well ya there are many questions...well i wanna say thx for sharing pics for better understanding...
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