Best Preamp under $200

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Re: Re: preamp wars

chessrock said:

I'm not thrilled with how it sounds with dynamic mics (shure sm57, etc.)
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An sm57 into the RNP is an intense experience.

Dan, youre the only person Ive come across who recommends the radius. Interestingly, although HHB does a boatload of marketing, their products are rarely recommended anywhere. Mindprint on the other hand does almost no marketing in the US and yet they maintain a following. Personally, Im a fan of studio projects but I found the VTB-1 thin and not very fast on transients. I havent seen you mention the RNP. Is there an elephant in the living room or something?
 
Ah . . . the Radius.

If memory serves, it developed somewhat of a cult following for a time amongst the many who rushed out to buy the TLM103 and found themselves dissatisfied with it's hypey high end and sibilance tendencies.

Basically, what it is is another faux-tube, somewhat murky-sounding hybrid pre that dulls the sound of overly-bright mics to where they're within a tolerable range. It fell in to favor with a few of the guys on RAP for a while, actually.

It's really a completely different beast from the mindprint, which is known for being good at brightening an otherwise dull-sounding mic, for instance, or for when you need a little more detail, etc. It's way on the other end of the spectrum

Having both in your arsenal would actually be quite complimentary, I imagine. But I still can't see shelling out that kind of money on the HB40 when the ART line of pres are basically the same kind of thing; lower-impedence, darker, starved-plate tube, etc. . . . only for less money.

As far as which is better, it's really a matter of taste. It appears DOT likes the sound of a tube with less-than-ample voltage. It's a sound, and if that's what you like, then there's certainly nothing wrong with it.
 
A key difference is that with the VTB-1 the starved plate tube setup can be dialed in or
out, independent of the signal path...whether or not you otherwise like it.
I've found the "tube blend" feature helps tame an otherwise bright vocal microphone.
For someone with a limited microphone selection, this could be an important
enhancement.

So much of mic pre evaluation is personal taste, like how I generally prefer well pressed
vinyl to CD's, analog recording to digital, KRK V series monitors to Mackie's, etc.
probably influences me as to what kind of pre sound I like.

BTW, noted engineer, Jules Standien's first vocal signal chain he started using was;
EV RE20>HHB Radius channel strip, and he received many compliments on how good
it sounded. I think he'll say it's better than an ART Tube, if you ask him. :)

Chris
 
chessparov said:
A key difference is that with the VTB-1 the starved plate tube setup can be dialed in or out, independent of the signal path...
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That's kind of the idea behind all starved plate designs, including the ART range, where the desired level of tube can be attained by fiddling with the drive at the Input versus the Output. Same deal with the dbx stuff, etc.

The only thing that's different is the Aphex (107 and 207), and it's basically a whole different beast to where the tube really doesn't contribute much of anything in the traditional sense . . . actually works similar to an aural exciter, oddly enough.

BTW, noted engineer, Jules Standien's first vocal signal chain he started using was; EV RE20>HHB Radius channel strip, and he received many compliments on how good it sounded. I think he'll say it's better than an ART Tube, if you ask him. :)
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Yea, I think Ty Ford was another one touting the virtues of the HHB a while back. To me, it just seemed like a "safer" recommendation, since so many people like to bash ART gear. :D My point is that it has a particular sound that is completely different, the opposite actually, from the Mindprint, so to say one is better than the other is almost completely a matter of personal taste. Actually, the two would compliment each other very nicely, offering either end of the sonic spectrum at a low cost point.
 
Chessrock, sorry I wasn't clear enough.
The VTB-1's "tube blend" is operated INDEPENDENT of the mic pre's input gain, whereas all the other "starved plate" designs
are input gain dependent.

The Aphex 107's design was unusual in that the more you cranked up the gain, the quieter it became, and the better its
mild harmonic distortion would sound so you had to know how to
push it, like a Meek unit, to have it perform best.

I still keep an Aphex 109 parametric EQ with the same "tubessence" as the 107 because that effect works well on my vocals. Craig Anderton had similar results with the 107 on his voice too and likes that unit. You may not want that fixed amount
of tubessence on every song though.

If any of you have a Beyer M88 (or M88TG), try it with the VTB-1,
sounds killer for the right kind of voice IHMO!
Just make sure to engage the bass roll-off switch and keep it
in "SS" mode for initial tracking.

Chris
 
Middleman said:
Is the RNP class A? I don't think it is because its specs on the FMR site say nothing about it. If somone knows let me know...
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From the FMR website...

"... The preamp itself is a unique, full Class A self-biasing-fully differential-DC servoed-transimpedance-100MHz GBP-instrumentation amp with an input impedance of 5k... "

The full page is here... http://www.fmraudio.com/rnp/index.html
 
pundit

Down there at the middle of the page. Missed it. Thanks.
 
If you can find one, you also might want to check out the Peavey TMP-1. It is a single channel mic pre with 12AX7 and 12AT7 tubes. Apparently, it is sort of a "little brother" to the VMP-2 mic pre that a lot of pros raved about while they were available.

The only caveat is that there are NO extra features (EQ, etc.), and the phantom power peaks out at about 24V. I picked up an Apex phantom box, though, and that solved that rather easily and cheaply.

Chris
 
I'm going to throw a new one out there . . .

http://www.topdjgear.com/rane-ms-1b.html

This one was actually discussed on the board several months ago. It's a very simple design based around the same burr-brown opamp used in the Grace Design 101.

I have no idea if it's any good, but it seems as though it might be worthwhile at it's $150 price tag.
 
Chessrock, I recommend that you take a good listen at www.thelisteningsessions.com at Session 2, where both the VTB-1 and the TL Audio 5051 Ivory 2 AND the older HHB Radius 40 are shown on electric guitar. I find both the VTB-1 and the Radius 40 a bit muddy/dirty and onfocused sounding (on the SM57 and C1 tracks). The 5051 Ivory 2 however is way more in the big boy's league...

BTW, you can also control its amount of tube drive by working with both the input/drive and output gain knobs...
 
I dont know much about this one but theres an STA 8 channel preamp on the market for 190.00. A whole set of drums could be recorded with such a thing.
 
You are the first in many blogs/forums that has said something about the presonus blue tube, i purchased a presonus bluetube dp and got it today.
I first did research heard nothing but good stuff, for pre's under 200.00 now im hearing/reading nothing but b/s.

I dont know whether to return it now, i was thinking of buying a mullard tube for it, now i dont know. As for the presonus bluetube dp i only paid 100.00 for it new, what you guys think should i return it?

Also as far as to dark for vocals if you are using a tube mic and engage the tube on the presonus bluetube dp then it def will sound dark, if you do not have a tube mic then slowly raise the tube knob, when turning it off make sure it clicks then it means its off and just using the solid state

StevenLindsey said:
I'vd gotten some pretty good, clean guitar, keyboard and bass sound from a Presonus Blue Tube. $150.00. It's a fairly quiet box. A little too dark for my taste when used as a vocal mic preamp but in some instances that may be a good thing. Not bad for a cheap, two channel amp. Looks lovely next to Blue Max too.
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