J
JuSumPilgrim
New member
chessrock said:
Very well put, Chess.
I concur completely.
The DMP3s compete with just about anything in the $5-600 range aside from the grace.
Very well put, Chess.
I concur completely.
The DMP3s compete with just about anything in the $5-600 range aside from the grace.
O
ozraves
New member
Re: Chessrock
the fmr rnmp is coming out in three weeks. go that route. my complaint about the meek is that it tends to be a tad one-dimensional. i've found that great for layered vocals but not much else.
Speeddemon said:
the fmr rnmp is coming out in three weeks. go that route. my complaint about the meek is that it tends to be a tad one-dimensional. i've found that great for layered vocals but not much else.
T
tdukex
Man of the Muse
Re: Re: Chessrock
You're kidding, right? You are the first person I've ever heard that felt this way about the Meek VC1Qcs. I guess you can't please everybody.
ozraves said:
You're kidding, right? You are the first person I've ever heard that felt this way about the Meek VC1Qcs. I guess you can't please everybody.
O
ozraves
New member
Re: Re: Re: Chessrock
i've heard one vocal through that channel that i've liked. and, i thought that vocal would have been much better done through something else. in any event, this meek unit does wonderfully with stacked vocals, which tend to sound better through a one-dimensional pre.
tdukex said:
i've heard one vocal through that channel that i've liked. and, i thought that vocal would have been much better done through something else. in any event, this meek unit does wonderfully with stacked vocals, which tend to sound better through a one-dimensional pre.
C
chessrock
Banned
Speeddemon said:
Actually, I think the Meeks are pretty damn good for certain things, but not everything.
60's surf / 70's rock just might be a chore the VC1Q would handle really nicely - especially since a lot of the stuff from that era used photo-optic style compressors. The preamp itself is pretty good, too, but it's really the compressor that would do a lot for the style of music you're doing.
jimistone
long standing member
"meek only good for layered vocals"
you haven't done enough experimenting and getting familiar with the meek yet if you believe this. I have really done alot of experimenting..i've tracked with the compresser and the eq...tracked with the mic pre only...opti compresser only..with the eq only....experimented with alot of compression and a little compression...alot of input gain and a little output gain (and vice versa) ect..ect. I have gotten killer bass and guitar tracks with it and also some killer vocal tracks
i will also say that along with the killer tracks i have gotten some shitty sounding tracks too...thats why you have to experiment. this is not a unit that you can just plug in turn it on and get stellar results. you have to tweak and listen (listen closely) and tweak some more. the optical compresser is very sensative and there is sometimes a cunt hair of difference in sounding fantastic and not so good.
the more familiar you get with this piece of equipment the better your results are going to be
as far as the meek being a step up from the beringer pres I am not familiar with beringer pres (i am with mackie pres). I can only tell you that I have a korg d1600 and from everything I have read (and my own listening) that the korg has pretty good pres...the meek was a pretty big step up in sound quality (to my ears)
peace
you haven't done enough experimenting and getting familiar with the meek yet if you believe this. I have really done alot of experimenting..i've tracked with the compresser and the eq...tracked with the mic pre only...opti compresser only..with the eq only....experimented with alot of compression and a little compression...alot of input gain and a little output gain (and vice versa) ect..ect. I have gotten killer bass and guitar tracks with it and also some killer vocal tracks
i will also say that along with the killer tracks i have gotten some shitty sounding tracks too...thats why you have to experiment. this is not a unit that you can just plug in turn it on and get stellar results. you have to tweak and listen (listen closely) and tweak some more. the optical compresser is very sensative and there is sometimes a cunt hair of difference in sounding fantastic and not so good.
the more familiar you get with this piece of equipment the better your results are going to be
as far as the meek being a step up from the beringer pres I am not familiar with beringer pres (i am with mackie pres). I can only tell you that I have a korg d1600 and from everything I have read (and my own listening) that the korg has pretty good pres...the meek was a pretty big step up in sound quality (to my ears)
peace
Speeddemon
New member
Well said Jimi
Yeah, I got a Korg D16, and I think I'm gonna buy a Meek VC1Q with an Audiobuddy/DMP-3. Or maybe instead of the Meek, I'll buy a MindPrint Envoice.
more thoughts?
Yeah, I got a Korg D16, and I think I'm gonna buy a Meek VC1Q with an Audiobuddy/DMP-3. Or maybe instead of the Meek, I'll buy a MindPrint Envoice.
more thoughts?
jimistone
long standing member
the eq on the vc6q is very good (alot better sounding than the digital eq's on the korg). also you have alot of headroom on that pre...something the korg needs in my opinion. the korg pres sound pretty good but you have to crank the trim on a condenser mic.
J
JuSumPilgrim
New member
Every meek piece has a learning curve. I would say the envoice has much less of one. The pre on its own is definitely one of the best in its range. There isnt this narrow range of settings where it excels. Along the spectrum from straightforward clean sounds to thick and tubey it works very well all along the way. Its not as idiosyncratic as the VC6Q.
C
chessrock
Banned
"Idiosyncratic."
Very good explanation of Meek gear if I've ever heard one.
Speed, for the price range you're looking at, probably your best option would be to just get a Soundcraft board and an RNC. You'll get one more channel of preamp, while the eq on the board will be better than any of the units mentioned, as will the compressor.
Very good explanation of Meek gear if I've ever heard one.
Speed, for the price range you're looking at, probably your best option would be to just get a Soundcraft board and an RNC. You'll get one more channel of preamp, while the eq on the board will be better than any of the units mentioned, as will the compressor.
Speeddemon
New member
Chessrock????
Are you saying I should get let's say a Spirit Folio SX and that its EQ is better than those on the VC1Q and the Envoice? I hope I misunderstood you here. I have not the money nor the means to spend $1300 on a Mackie 1604 VLZ Pro, and the smaller Mackies don't have direct outs, so the only option with 8 direct outs and 12 mic pre's is the Folio SX. For around $400.
But I was thinking more like: getting 1 Audiobuddy or a DMP-3 AND a Meek VC1Q/Envoice for more coloring.
My Korg D16 has 8 mic pre's, not the best of the world, but I don't think the mic pre's of a Folio SX will improve much, and frankly, having a sort of mixer in the Korg, is making a buy like the Folio SX quite redundant for that $400, don't ya think?
I'd only buy the Folio SX for some live recording, so I have more control over the tracks, and having more auxes and inserts at my disposal. (The Korg D16 has only 1 unbalanced aux send...
)
Whaddaya think?
Are you saying I should get let's say a Spirit Folio SX and that its EQ is better than those on the VC1Q and the Envoice? I hope I misunderstood you here. I have not the money nor the means to spend $1300 on a Mackie 1604 VLZ Pro, and the smaller Mackies don't have direct outs, so the only option with 8 direct outs and 12 mic pre's is the Folio SX. For around $400.
But I was thinking more like: getting 1 Audiobuddy or a DMP-3 AND a Meek VC1Q/Envoice for more coloring.
My Korg D16 has 8 mic pre's, not the best of the world, but I don't think the mic pre's of a Folio SX will improve much, and frankly, having a sort of mixer in the Korg, is making a buy like the Folio SX quite redundant for that $400, don't ya think?
I'd only buy the Folio SX for some live recording, so I have more control over the tracks, and having more auxes and inserts at my disposal. (The Korg D16 has only 1 unbalanced aux send...
)Whaddaya think?
J
jet-rocker
New member
The smaller Mackies certainly do have direct outs (inserts) just ask my 1202.
-Jett
-Jett
C
chessrock
Banned
Speed, I was talking about their M4's.
Do some research on them. Very good preamps - same as those in the "Ghost," if I'm not mistaken - worlds better than what you'd get with your Korg. Very likely on par with the Joemeek - only you'd be getting four instead of one. And they're supposed to have some of the best eq available on any board.
So for roughly the same price range (as the Mindprint/VC1Q), you'd be getting 4 channels worth of that, plus 2 channels of compression with the RNC. I don't think you could find better value. It's a pretty well-kept secret. If I had to do it over . . .
JusumPilgrim knows more about the soundcraft boards I'm talking about - I believe he even had one for sale not too long ago. Jusum?
Do some research on them. Very good preamps - same as those in the "Ghost," if I'm not mistaken - worlds better than what you'd get with your Korg. Very likely on par with the Joemeek - only you'd be getting four instead of one. And they're supposed to have some of the best eq available on any board.
So for roughly the same price range (as the Mindprint/VC1Q), you'd be getting 4 channels worth of that, plus 2 channels of compression with the RNC. I don't think you could find better value. It's a pretty well-kept secret. If I had to do it over . . .
JusumPilgrim knows more about the soundcraft boards I'm talking about - I believe he even had one for sale not too long ago. Jusum?
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R
Randy Yell
New member
Jett,a direct out is not the same thing as an insert(although you can go from the insert to the recorder).
J
JuSumPilgrim
New member
Right here, chessrock.
I would not say the pres in the M series are better than those on the mindprint or meek. The pres are good but the pre on my mindprint is bigger and more muscular (without any EQ or tube in the signal). I havent used the meek pre on its own enough (without compression) to make a call. The big deal about soundcraft is the EQ which is really, really...really... nice. Also has swept mids. Mackie is really irrelevant as a mixer given the pres and EQ you get with the M series. But especially EQ. There is no compariosn bet mackie EQ and soundcraft EQ. Its nite and day. It would be great if they sold a standalone EQ.
The EQ on the mindprint is also very musical and is swept and has a variable Q in the mids.
The Ghost pres are great if youre tracking bands all day but if youre doing at most 1 or 2 tracks at a time, it wouldnt be your gold channel. If youre looking for a gold channel, I would recommend the mindprint or grace for the same $500 you would spend on a soundcraft. The grace is truly nice and in a dif class, prewise, but the mindprint is a channel strip and does much more and is one of the best strips IMO for $500 and probably under $1k in terms of sound quality and bang for your buck flexibility.
I would not say the pres in the M series are better than those on the mindprint or meek. The pres are good but the pre on my mindprint is bigger and more muscular (without any EQ or tube in the signal). I havent used the meek pre on its own enough (without compression) to make a call. The big deal about soundcraft is the EQ which is really, really...really... nice. Also has swept mids. Mackie is really irrelevant as a mixer given the pres and EQ you get with the M series. But especially EQ. There is no compariosn bet mackie EQ and soundcraft EQ. Its nite and day. It would be great if they sold a standalone EQ.
The EQ on the mindprint is also very musical and is swept and has a variable Q in the mids.
The Ghost pres are great if youre tracking bands all day but if youre doing at most 1 or 2 tracks at a time, it wouldnt be your gold channel. If youre looking for a gold channel, I would recommend the mindprint or grace for the same $500 you would spend on a soundcraft. The grace is truly nice and in a dif class, prewise, but the mindprint is a channel strip and does much more and is one of the best strips IMO for $500 and probably under $1k in terms of sound quality and bang for your buck flexibility.
C
chessrock
Banned
Jusum,
I respect your take on things. I really think you're one of the more under-rated contributors on this board, and I wish you would post more.
Anyway, what's your take on the whole "discrete" vs. "chip" thing? Do you really think the burr-brown (in the Grace) is as good as a discrete unit?
Also, I've noticed the mindprint seems to have an almost cult-like fanatical following. Similar to Star Trek fans or worse yet, Doors fans.
What is it about that unit that people like so much?
Details . . . ?
I respect your take on things. I really think you're one of the more under-rated contributors on this board, and I wish you would post more.
Anyway, what's your take on the whole "discrete" vs. "chip" thing? Do you really think the burr-brown (in the Grace) is as good as a discrete unit?
Also, I've noticed the mindprint seems to have an almost cult-like fanatical following. Similar to Star Trek fans or worse yet, Doors fans.
What is it about that unit that people like so much? Details . . . ?
J
JuSumPilgrim
New member
Thanks chessrock.
Back at you. Your posts are informed and thoughtfully written. Ive caught myself saying "uhuh" and "damn straight." I almost always check em when Im part of a thread. (I dont check all the alerts).
I would post more but its about quality, not quantity. When an issue has been beaten to death ( as 80% of the threads on here have) and theres nothing new to say about it, theres no need to post.
I dont think at the $3-500 level the discrete vs chip pre makes any dif. There are discrete pres like focusrite and presonus (voicemaster/penta & vxp) that sound ok (definitely not worth more than $500) and there are chip based pres like DMP3 that sound just as good (def worth more than $200). The whole debate is really irrelevant and is started by people who are always trying to make distinctions bet the under $1k gear and the +$1k gear. There is stuff in both those categories thats great and not great. Alot of "pros", guys producing and engineering for the last couple of decades, rely on outdated info or their impressions of some unit that used 5534 ICs in 1987. Chip based pres have come a long way and while the best stuff is still discrete, I wonder if its bec ICs are fundamentally limited or bec its a sacred cow for the pro community. The same is true for every category of gear. There are guys who rag on the NTK and studio projects stuff and its all insecurity. Some people need to pay alot for their mufflers. They need to spend at least $1k in order to feel like their pros bec you couldnt tell by their work.
It was more true 5 years ago that if you buy cheap you buy twice as Ed likes to say than it is now. Alot of guys dont speak from experience with a product, especially newer stuff, but from a bias against anything under $1k which is considered cheap and "prosumer."
As far as the mindprint..check one out and youll see why it has a cult-like following. I just like the way it sounds. I like the pre by itself without anything on it and I like it with EQ and compression. A major point which separates it from the rest of the mediocre strips is its ability to be thick with the tube sat engaged (and in a very musical way for vocals unlike art) while maintaining detailed transients. The brightness and transparency dont get lost bec the tube is on. I havent found that in the $500 channel strip range.
Im probably gonna post a couple of songs done with the envoice done by dif artists in totally dif styles at the end of the month or early next month.
Back at you. Your posts are informed and thoughtfully written. Ive caught myself saying "uhuh" and "damn straight." I almost always check em when Im part of a thread. (I dont check all the alerts).
I would post more but its about quality, not quantity. When an issue has been beaten to death ( as 80% of the threads on here have) and theres nothing new to say about it, theres no need to post.
I dont think at the $3-500 level the discrete vs chip pre makes any dif. There are discrete pres like focusrite and presonus (voicemaster/penta & vxp) that sound ok (definitely not worth more than $500) and there are chip based pres like DMP3 that sound just as good (def worth more than $200). The whole debate is really irrelevant and is started by people who are always trying to make distinctions bet the under $1k gear and the +$1k gear. There is stuff in both those categories thats great and not great. Alot of "pros", guys producing and engineering for the last couple of decades, rely on outdated info or their impressions of some unit that used 5534 ICs in 1987. Chip based pres have come a long way and while the best stuff is still discrete, I wonder if its bec ICs are fundamentally limited or bec its a sacred cow for the pro community. The same is true for every category of gear. There are guys who rag on the NTK and studio projects stuff and its all insecurity. Some people need to pay alot for their mufflers. They need to spend at least $1k in order to feel like their pros bec you couldnt tell by their work.
It was more true 5 years ago that if you buy cheap you buy twice as Ed likes to say than it is now. Alot of guys dont speak from experience with a product, especially newer stuff, but from a bias against anything under $1k which is considered cheap and "prosumer."
As far as the mindprint..check one out and youll see why it has a cult-like following. I just like the way it sounds. I like the pre by itself without anything on it and I like it with EQ and compression. A major point which separates it from the rest of the mediocre strips is its ability to be thick with the tube sat engaged (and in a very musical way for vocals unlike art) while maintaining detailed transients. The brightness and transparency dont get lost bec the tube is on. I havent found that in the $500 channel strip range.
Im probably gonna post a couple of songs done with the envoice done by dif artists in totally dif styles at the end of the month or early next month.
C
chessrock
Banned
You realize a lot of the gear snobs you speak of will turn their noses up at these "hybrid" tube/solid state units. I don't see anything wrong with them, as long as they sound good. In a way, it seems like it could offer a little of the best of both worlds.
Speaking of the hybrids, do you know anything about the digitech vtp-1? It's got my curiosity.
Speaking of the hybrids, do you know anything about the digitech vtp-1? It's got my curiosity.
J
JuSumPilgrim
New member
I dont know about the digitech. M-Audio is coming out with a serious pre that looks really interesting that is also hybrid which MF has for $640. Given their track record for price/quality I wouldnt be surprised if it sets a new standard for that range.
Speeddemon
New member
Chessrock AND JuSumPilgrim...
you guys BOTH have been a tremendous value to my growing wisdom. As a bit of a recording newbie, I look around, -you know like a kid with huge eyes staring at 20 aisles of toys-, so I'm not that much biased by tube vs. digital stuff. What counts for me is reliability, sound quality and price/value.
As I get more recommendations for the Envoice, I will definately check it vs. the Joemeek VC1Q (the one WITH the transformers, not the IC's, not just because people say that transformers are better, but because it'll save me over $200! )
Like I said, I think I would rather go Envoice/VC1Q with a DMP-3/Audiobuddy than spending $600 on the Spirit M4, it takes up a lot of place, and for now I will only be tracking 2/3 tracks at most.
I may save some money on my monitor-choice; after some extensive listening I decided to either save money: Behringer Truths or save up money: Mackie HR824. I still have to A/B the Behringers with the Tannoy Reveal Actives, Event PS-serie, but I think I will spend this summer no more than $700 on my monitors, so I can save up 3 to 5 years for the real deal: Mackie HR824.
I will see.
cheerz
you guys BOTH have been a tremendous value to my growing wisdom. As a bit of a recording newbie, I look around, -you know like a kid with huge eyes staring at 20 aisles of toys-, so I'm not that much biased by tube vs. digital stuff. What counts for me is reliability, sound quality and price/value.
As I get more recommendations for the Envoice, I will definately check it vs. the Joemeek VC1Q (the one WITH the transformers, not the IC's, not just because people say that transformers are better, but because it'll save me over $200!
)Like I said, I think I would rather go Envoice/VC1Q with a DMP-3/Audiobuddy than spending $600 on the Spirit M4, it takes up a lot of place, and for now I will only be tracking 2/3 tracks at most.
I may save some money on my monitor-choice; after some extensive listening I decided to either save money: Behringer Truths or save up money: Mackie HR824. I still have to A/B the Behringers with the Tannoy Reveal Actives, Event PS-serie, but I think I will spend this summer no more than $700 on my monitors, so I can save up 3 to 5 years for the real deal: Mackie HR824.
I will see.
cheerz