Best Amp Modelers
- Thread starter pworam
- Start date
Telegram Sam
New member
The way I see it, in order for it to feel like a real amplifier, it still needs to have switches and knobs and a place to plug your guitar in...
antichef
pornk rock
If you work with the computer models, you have to have to pay attention to the input, which will be analog no matter what you do. Input impedance and headroom are important, and they're normally not what you want when you go direct into a computer. Next comes the analog/digital converter. A low quality input, especially, and I suppose a low quality converter can mess things up. Any problems in these stages, especially yucky clipping, are going to send a crappy dry signal to the model, and then there's only so much you'll be able to do. I don't have any experience with AxeFX, but I suspect those nice systems have high quality analog inputs and conversion.
Today, I played around with some models inside Logic Pro (the stock ones, and some I downloaded). I was using a good preamp and converter, and I still clipped sometimes, but when I avoided that problem, it was kind of fun. The studio monitors sound so pristine, and some of the models were for amps I have never played through. Some of the models are for amps I have sitting in another room, though, and here's where I gotta go with the real amp folks. Much of it may be the real 4X12 cabs that are hooked up to the real amps, but I'm not sure, but in any case, I can testify that the JCM 800 2204 (model may have been 2203 - I have a 1986 2204), JMP lead (model was probably for a plexi - I have a 1971 post-plexi), and Orange OR100 (I have a new sort of re-issue one) models sound (and, primarily feel) like anemic papier mâché miniatures compared to the real things. But that's not to say the models didn't sound good - I almost wish they wouldn't reference real amps, but would just be what they are - then I wouldn't be bumming out on them.
But hey, I'm also 45 and 160 (+) - with a failing back - I know that feel bro
Today, I played around with some models inside Logic Pro (the stock ones, and some I downloaded). I was using a good preamp and converter, and I still clipped sometimes, but when I avoided that problem, it was kind of fun. The studio monitors sound so pristine, and some of the models were for amps I have never played through. Some of the models are for amps I have sitting in another room, though, and here's where I gotta go with the real amp folks. Much of it may be the real 4X12 cabs that are hooked up to the real amps, but I'm not sure, but in any case, I can testify that the JCM 800 2204 (model may have been 2203 - I have a 1986 2204), JMP lead (model was probably for a plexi - I have a 1971 post-plexi), and Orange OR100 (I have a new sort of re-issue one) models sound (and, primarily feel) like anemic papier mâché miniatures compared to the real things. But that's not to say the models didn't sound good - I almost wish they wouldn't reference real amps, but would just be what they are - then I wouldn't be bumming out on them.
But hey, I'm also 45 and 160 (+) - with a failing back - I know that feel bro
Telegram Sam
New member
I agree, amp in the room can't be modeled because real amps push air and make your knees buckle.
What you end up getting with a first rate modeler is what a well recorded version of the original amp sounds like through monitor speakers.
And yes, the good modelers have impedance matching inputs, the cables are even noisy when plugging in just like plugging into a real amp.
minerman
Tonetard
I have both ampsims (lots of 'em) & low watt tube amps, & they're good/bad with both...If you want silent playing/recording, go with the ampsims/modelers, while my amps aren't super loud, they are loud enough to piss everyone off in the house late at night...
I personally wouldn't use a computer/ampsim/vst live, too many things to go wrong, if I had the $$$ & wanted a modeler, I'd get either a Fractal or Kemper....
Here's a couple low watt amps that I think sound pretty good, but again, while they're low watt, they're not silent by any means....I knew the Egnater would be kinda loud at 15 watts, but the DSL-1 amazes me at how loud this little thing really is for a 1w amp....
I personally wouldn't use a computer/ampsim/vst live, too many things to go wrong, if I had the $$$ & wanted a modeler, I'd get either a Fractal or Kemper....
Here's a couple low watt amps that I think sound pretty good, but again, while they're low watt, they're not silent by any means....I knew the Egnater would be kinda loud at 15 watts, but the DSL-1 amazes me at how loud this little thing really is for a 1w amp....
wavewarrior
New member
You could consider the "Eleven Rack", made by Avid.
Is a very cool unit, very clean sounding and pretty affordable.
I have one in my desk for those times I don't want to mess with the Marshall & mics.
Has plenty of amp sounds, many are very realistic sounding and the best things about the Eleven is it can also be used as an effects unit for re-amping tracks and as a pre-amp into a power amp or PA.
Here's a video on the unit and some of its functions.
Sweetwater Minute - Vol. 170, Avid Eleven Rack Demo - YouTube
Here's some of the tones it produces.
Digidesign Eleven Rack - All Amp Models Demo - YouTube
Hope it helps.
With regard to "quality" input circuits with high headroom?
No one seems to question the inputs on pedals, the majority of which have a 9volt supply and thus the input overload point is at best about 3V rms.
Very acceptable converters are now as cheap as chips, look at how many sub £100 AIs there are?
Dave.
No one seems to question the inputs on pedals, the majority of which have a 9volt supply and thus the input overload point is at best about 3V rms.
Very acceptable converters are now as cheap as chips, look at how many sub £100 AIs there are?
Dave.
antichef
pornk rock
Don't mean to say they're expensive - just that plugging straight into a computer isn't likely to work well, and it's not entirely obvious how to get around that unless you're using an interface of some sort, and even then you may have gain-staging issues that don't exist with an amp. I really say this in defense of modelers - for a long time, a lot of what I thought I didn't like about the models was actually attributable to a bad input signal.
Ah yes! not a good idea to go into a PC line input I agree. But when peeps talk of "modelling" amps they must, by definition, contain an interface, leastways, the one I am a wee bit familiar with, Blackstar ID certainly does.
I shipped a Line 6 15watt combo to my son in France and he said it is pretty good. Now he was a REET fussy b'std when home! All he really liked was the Vox AC30 and a B'star A15, neither of which we could afford!
Dave.
wavewarrior
New member
+1
The 1 watt Marshalls are amazing.
I had the DSL1 & JVM1, sold the DSL to a friend and kept the JVM, both sounded very similar in tone.
I put some NOS tested RCA's in it and wow, insane tube tone from these lil amps.
Not cheap, but worth every dime.
Telegram Sam
New member
I'm setting up a scratch pad studio with the Eleven Rack and EZ drummer on a small notebook.
If I can get it working I will post up some characteristic tones.
If I can get it working I will post up some characteristic tones.
wavewarrior
New member
I think you'll be happy with the Eleven rack, mine amazes me all the time.
There's an excellent user group that's full of wild pre-sets that can be downloaded.
Its called "Eleven Rack Presets" Eleven Rack Users Group and Preset Exchange for the Avid Eleven Rack
Good luck!
minerman
Tonetard
Yeah man, love my DSL-1, I almost got the JVM-1, but opted for the clean channel with a gain & volume over the single volume & presence knobs on the JVM-1, I don't know myself, but I thought they'd be about the same really....Still, love this little amp, best piece of gear I've bought in a long time...
I did some tube rolling in my DSL-1 too, the clips I've posted have:
V1: Mullard
V2: GE
V3: RCA Clear top
V4: Sylavania
V5: RCA Clear top
FWIW, I've got a few sets of NOS power tubes for it, the RCA Clear Tops, RCA Black Tops, & Tung-Sol's...I like the Clear Tops best, the Tung-Sol's seem to kill the high end too much for me, the Black Tops are a close second to the Clear Tops, I like the way it compresses/adds dirt when I turn the master up with these....
I've tried a 12AX7 in V3 & V5, sounded like utter shit in V5 (power tube slot), but, using a 12AX7 in V3 gives the amp a little more headroom...I've also got a couple high gain 5751 Shuguang's that sound pretty good in all slots except V5...
rayc
retroreprobate
"If you don't dig modeling, whatever." isn't a sentence.
Whatever has become a short cut dismissive term derived from "..do whatever your want to, I don't care," or words to that effect.
I don't really like the modellers I have - free or bought.
If I'd grown up on Line 6 I'd probably think almost any modeller was good - simply in comparison to what I was used to.
Greg, I believe, is merely expressing his frustration with the downward trajectory of the range of topics requests which he finds expidentially linked to the quest for a preset easy answer to the question of tone, taste and testicularity.
Whatever has become a short cut dismissive term derived from "..do whatever your want to, I don't care," or words to that effect.
I don't really like the modellers I have - free or bought.
If I'd grown up on Line 6 I'd probably think almost any modeller was good - simply in comparison to what I was used to.
Greg, I believe, is merely expressing his frustration with the downward trajectory of the range of topics requests which he finds expidentially linked to the quest for a preset easy answer to the question of tone, taste and testicularity.
Haha, that is mostly true. It's an extension of the pussification of global society. We can't say "midget" anymore, and amps have apparently become too heavy or limited for live use. I don't mind modelers/sims for recording, but for live? Lame. I'll shout it from the rooftops.
minerman
Tonetard
You're right dude, that's why I contacted the guy who designed the DSL-1 & JVM-1 for Marshall, to ask about tube swapping/changes in my DSL-1....He told me it wouldn't hurt my amp, but a 12AX7 in the power slot would sound like shit...He also told me the tube swap in V3 wouldn't hurt the amp, & if I liked what the 12AX7/5751 did for the tone, then by all means use 'em....
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
SHEPPARDB.
Well-known member
The Axe FX II is as good as it gets for studio,IMO.(besides having the actual amps) I think a lot of folks that dismiss it for live use are only looking at the direct to PA setup, which is a recipe for suck, to my ears. After trying several power amps with mine,(including the highly touted Atomic 50/50, which is a complete hunk of shite) I paired mine with an old Marshall 9005, wet/dry to two 412 cabs, or single 412 cab, and you would never know it was a modeler.
When it is all said and done, I still like my real amp for live, but I have been thinking about picking up another AXE II just for recording.Considering all that you get and the capabilities, the price is a bargain.
When it is all said and done, I still like my real amp for live, but I have been thinking about picking up another AXE II just for recording.Considering all that you get and the capabilities, the price is a bargain.