Behringer how bad, really?

[acorec]

The same way many behringer bashers haven't used behringer many behringer supporters have never used anything better. I've messed around with some of the mixers and have heard stuff done on them. Their mixers will generally do what they are supposed to do but the sound is usually thin and slightly muffled.

The problem is that the differences between okay and great sound are a lot of small things added together. You can make passable recordings on a behringer but you will be far from killer sound. For a few hundred bucks more you can be much closer.

Good post. I will only say that I have worked on some of the best consoles made. In the 1000-5000 range, we on this BBS are fighting for better sound with limited options out there. I have the Behringer MX8000 because I needed a cost effective board for my home studio. I worked in pro studios for a while and see no difference between Mackie and Behringer. When you use the top consoles, you will understand how little difference there is on any board that is less than 5000. Really, for my hobby, I will never afford the next step up. It is not a couple of hundred, but many thousands away. I just do not need it. But, a really good board, if you must have it, will be in the 10,000 range. This is when you start to get NOT more channels, but GOOD channels.

 

[Mark Scheuerman]

I recently picked up an MX9000 new for $1200 total, there is some crosstalk when soloing a channel but for the $ I couldn't pass it up. It matches up great with my Mackie MDR 24/96. The setup does what I need for my little home studio. It's just for fun anyway, isn't it? I have the tube composer which works great (with just the right settings), gates, B1 mic (which have both been great) & hopefully a headphone amp soon. I have a couple pair of headphones I think I will give to my dogs as chew toys (HPX2000 & HPS3000). I think you can get very useable results with most Beh equipment though it may require a little extra work & tweeking than gear costing much more. I guess it's a time issue, what is the price of time? How much time are you willing to spend to save some cash up front? Once you get used to the equipment does it actually take any more time to get just the right sound? Or do you want to pour out gobs of cash now & maybe save a couple minutes down the road? 99.999999999% of the worlds population will probably never hear 99% of what gets recorded in my studio. If I want to take things to the next level it more than likely would not include much Behringer stuff but for what I am doing I think Behringer is good stuff at a good price.
It's just for fun anyway, isn't it?

 

[acorec]

I couldn't agree more with what you said!



The only mistake you made is that much of Mackie's gear IS made in China now. Prolly in the same factories as Behringer. And the sad thing is that they are STILL CHARGING 3 to 4 TIMES AS MUCH because of the name.

My Behringer Gear:
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Damn! This means that Pre-China Mackies will be collectable!!!!
I see the prices going WAY up on those.............

 

[therage!]

Damn! This means that Pre-China Mackies will be collectable!!!!
I see the prices going WAY up on those.............

It's not just mixers that Commie child slave labor will be building....This from an earnings report.

""We are doing what needs to be done to restore Mackie's profitability," said Chief Executive Officer Jamie Engen. "We are focused on reducing costs and increasing productivity throughout the organization. To that end we continue to work on the rationalization of Mackie's global manufacturing in order to increase gross margin. We already manufacture certain of our popular analog mixers in China. By the end of 2002, we will be building amplifiers, power mixers, and some speakers in China as well. Additionally, we are taking a hard look at our existing products to ensure that each one meets our objectives for sales volume and profitability. We have already discontinued certain underperforming product lines, and are re-engineering certain products to reduce our costs.

"While these projects will all take considerable time and resources, we have made substantial progress so far in 2002, and we expect to accomplish much more in the next two or three quarters. Gross margin on new products will benefit from improved manufacturing efficiencies. Operating costs will be reduced where appropriate. We also will focus on our balance sheet, with the goals of reducing both inventories and bank debt."

Yeah SO WHERE ARE THE PRICE REDUCTIONS MACKIE?


http://www.mackiedesigns.com/index.html?[url]http://www.mackiedesigns.com/news/2002/20021024.html[/url]

 

[Toker41]

What Mackie said...
"We are doing what needs to be done to restore Mackie's profitability," said Chief Executive Officer Jamie Engen. "We are focused on reducing costs and increasing productivity throughout the organization. To that end we continue to work on the rationalization of Mackie's global manufacturing in order to increase gross margin. We already manufacture certain of our popular analog mixers in China. By the end of 2002, we will be building amplifiers, power mixers, and some speakers in China as well. Additionally, we are taking a hard look at our existing products to ensure that each one meets our objectives for sales volume and profitability. We have already discontinued certain underperforming product lines, and are re-engineering certain products to reduce our costs..."

What I heard...
"We here at Mackie are finding whole new ways of ripping off musicians and anyone else in the music field. Although we make pleanty of money by over charging and blaming it on RnD, consumers are on to us. Behringer has shown the public that it can be done cheaper, and the public paid attention despite our lawsuits to shut them the f**k up. So we will now give the consumer cheaper parts and lower quality, without reducing the price of the products to increase our bottom line while still allowing us to claim bankruptcy and hopefully get a U.S. government bail out like the c**ksucking lying airlines. The American consumer trust the Mackie name, so we will stick it to them good"

Now as for Gibson and thier f**king $2500 for a Les Paul!!!
...nah, I'll save that rant for another thread...

Sorry about the cursing...just so damn tired of everybody having thier damn hands in my pocket, but never giving me what I pay for!

 

[demensia]

I was using the autocom pro, a virtualizer, and an 802a...
I had to get rid of the autocom and the virtualizer, and The 802a is the worst piece of shit I have ever owned.. I cant justify getting something better at the moment though.

Dont buy the behringer stuff just because you can leave the store with it TODAY.. because thats what I do and you just end up selling it at a loss and buying the better item anyway.

Wanna buy an 802a?

 

[drummerboy930]

long reply

well after this really help full post.....i was wondering what would be better to record some rough demos with....i wanna record drums, 2 guitars and a bass all at the same time.....now i can buy this mackie mixer on musiciansfriend for 240....EFX12...which is 6 xlr inputs.....or the behr UB....that has 8 XLR inputs....for 300. I dont mind if i have to record the instruments at seperate times if sound quality would be bad.....but if its not that big of a difference which would be better? its a hard choice, i really would like 5 drum mics, then the bass, guitar and guitar, but if the sound sucks mine as well get the mackie and do drums first, then the guitars and bass......so which should it be? thanks, jon

 

[GROOVEJIVEY]

Dude...

... I use a MultiCom Pro with 2 Feedback Destroyer Pro's in my monitor rig for live sound. There's 4 of us (2 guitars/singers, 1 bass/singer, & 1 drums/singer), & here's how I set the rig up for monitors:
1 Carvin 32 channel 4 bus mixer, with each member in their own bus, each bus goes first to 1 of 4 inputs on the Multicom Pro, then out to 1 of 2 inputs on each of the FD Pro units. I've NEVER had any feedback or signal level problems with this setup, & I bought ALL my Behri stuff off of eBay. The current issue of M'sF shows a retail of $119.99 per FDPro, $129.99 for the MultiCom Pro, throw in shipping & handling, & you're in the $375-$400 range. EBay cost: less than $200 including shipping in the whole shebang. The items were in like-new condition, & all 3 units had the warranty cards intact! This is forcing me to take a VERY close look at the UltraCurve Pro unit, simply for no other reason than I really can't afford $499.99 + s/h for the dbx DriveRack PA, not counting an x-tra $100 for the mic they should throw in for free to use with the RTA. I'm searching eBay for the UltraCurve unit, & if I can't locate one there, then HELL YEAH I'll pay the 179.99 + s/h from M'sF! I've never used Behri boards, so I don't know anything about them, but as for their other gear, by all means, use it like you stole it, since you'll NEVER find more bang for the buck! All my gear is mounted in racks, & has proven itself to be very road-worthy. And guess what I'm using for power amps? A Peavey 2000 for the subs, a 1200 for the mids, & a 260 for the horns. Okay, okay, stop throwing up... ;D Fuck Mackie, they're overpriced as far as the "average Joe broke-assed musician" is concerned! I'm talking live sound here, not recording, but if my previous performances are anything to go by, then by all means try it. It couldn't be any WORSE than some of the overpriced, undervalued crap that's floating around out there... yet another $.02 opionion from one more in a long line of assholes...
Groove.

 

[Freudian Slip]

What Mackie said...
"We are doing what needs to be done to restore Mackie's profitability," said Chief Executive Officer Jamie Engen. "We are focused on reducing costs and increasing productivity throughout the organization. To that end we continue to work on the rationalization of Mackie's global manufacturing in order to increase gross margin. We already manufacture certain of our popular analog mixers in China. By the end of 2002, we will be building amplifiers, power mixers, and some speakers in China as well. Additionally, we are taking a hard look at our existing products to ensure that each one meets our objectives for sales volume and profitability. We have already discontinued certain underperforming product lines, and are re-engineering certain products to reduce our costs..."

What I heard...
"We here at Mackie are finding whole new ways of ripping off musicians and anyone else in the music field. Although we make pleanty of money by over charging and blaming it on RnD, consumers are on to us. Behringer has shown the public that it can be done cheaper, and the public paid attention despite our lawsuits to shut them the f**k up. So we will now give the consumer cheaper parts and lower quality, without reducing the price of the products to increase our bottom line while still allowing us to claim bankruptcy and hopefully get a U.S. government bail out like the c**ksucking lying airlines. The American consumer trust the Mackie name, so we will stick it to them good"

Now as for Gibson and thier f**king $2500 for a Les Paul!!!
...nah, I'll save that rant for another thread...

Sorry about the cursing...just so damn tired of everybody having thier damn hands in my pocket, but never giving me what I pay for!

Give me a break! no one has ripped you off until you buy it and don't know what you bought, and even then I guess you should have checked. You haven't been ripped off until you buy it and they lie to you about where it was made, how it was made, with what it was made.

truth is they have upgraded several of thier mixers with XDR pickups over the last 7 or 8 years without increasing the price of them. They where an awsome deal then, are they a worse deal now? Mackie created the market that you now love to shop in to a great extent. They have nothing to be ashamed of.

Mackie can make crap just like the rest of them, and crap is crap where ever you make it, be it china, America or whst ever.

I have no opinion on Behringer mixers but if you bought one for half the price of a mackie and it is so great, who ripped you off??
No one. Not Mackie or Behringer.

Buy the way I agree totaly with the airlines It's called capitolisum. Sink or swim. But it's two different things.

Stop buying Mackie they go under, stop paing taxes, go to jail

F.S.

 

[marcuswilson]

Most of the Behringer stuff is a matter of economics. If it works well and costs less, then great.
If you have the chance to use something better, you may never want to go back, I certainly don't want to work at that level, but I have the choice.

There is one Behringer product I would slate, that's the digital EQ they made a few years ago. They've updated it now and it may be better, but the original had a dreadful user interface and distorted badly if a signal no where near clipping was put through it and a large cut was made at one frequency. It basically clipped the digital engine. This was an unforgiveable fault in design and the product should never be sold with this type of inadequacy. A friend had one on his PA and thought it was marvellous, we eventually convinced him to get rid of it and replaced it with 2 basic (cheap) DOD third octave graphics. He couldn;t believe how much better his PA sounded. After that I am very sceptical of Behringer digital products.

 

[Toker41]

I've been in music in one form or another for many years now...
...EVERY side of the music industry cares about 1 thing YOUR MONEY IN THIER POCKET. I have been ripped off and raped at every end. But hey, keep those blinders on if it helps ya feel better about it. Go pay $900 for an epaphone see if you feel any better. ( I guess this is where you tell me they are not that bad?).
I can't help but to wonder how a 15 year old kid that has a love for music is suppose to get any kind of decent gear togeather when EVERYTHING he needs (right down to the $30 guitar cable) is so damn over priced. Oh wait...I have it...the parents of the kid can pay for the stuff that the inexperenced kid feels must be the best because it's so expensive, and it's the name he hears everywhere. How 'bout you cut me a break???

And by the way....if you don't feel ripped off...try buying a set of overpriced V-drums and then getting ANY support from ROLAND.

 

[acorec]

I've been in music in one form or another for many years now...
...EVERY side of the music industry cares about 1 thing YOUR MONEY IN THIER POCKET. I have been ripped off and raped at every end. But hey, keep those blinders on if it helps ya feel better about it. Go pay $900 for an epaphone see if you feel any better. ( I guess this is where you tell me they are not that bad?).
I can't help but to wonder how a 15 year old kid that has a love for music is suppose to get any kind of decent gear togeather when EVERYTHING he needs (right down to the $30 guitar cable) is so damn over priced. Oh wait...I have it...the parents of the kid can pay for the stuff that the inexperenced kid feels must be the best because it's so expensive, and it's the name he hears everywhere. How 'bout you cut me a break???

And by the way....if you don't feel ripped off...try buying a set of overpriced V-drums and then getting ANY support from ROLAND.

Yeah, people would be awfully upset to know how much of the high-end gear is made in China. The standard deal is that the PC boards, electrical parts, chassis etc. are made in China. Then, the parts are shipped to America, Germany etc. and ASSEMBLED. Legally, they can say "Manufactured in (country name)". It is done far more than people realize. 30 years ago, "Made in Japan" was frowned upon by gear snobs. Now, MIJ is respected for excellent engineering and excellent reliability. China will get there some day.

 

[Fusion2]

i think many mackie users just can't take the fact that they paid 4-5 times the price for a unit that is "as or almost as" close to to what they bought and bash other hardware because of it, and i know for a fact musican can be a freaken fickle bunch but studio techs are the worst as far as bitch'n over a bad purchase/mix/mic/etc etc...

i've read so much BS between the two makers this must enter in the equation factor or there wouldn't be so much of it...

i own both, though i did get a steal on the mackie at a pawn shop, i find them close if not equal in most area's of config and use for a small home mixer... but i'm nobody in the scheme of things not being a huge voice in the industry or a big mouth reseller studio tech with ties to the Co it's all in the money, that's all, the rest is pure BS 99% of the time...IMHO -0.2's worth...

now years ago is a different story... today, eh....

 

[marcuswilson]

I can't help but to wonder how a 15 year old kid that has a love for music is suppose to get any kind of decent gear togeather when EVERYTHING he needs (right down to the $30 guitar cable) is so damn over priced. Oh wait...I have it...the parents of the kid can pay for the stuff that the inexperenced kid feels must be the best because it's so expensive, and it's the name he hears everywhere. How 'bout you cut me a break???

And by the way....if you don't feel ripped off...try buying a set of overpriced V-drums and then getting ANY support from ROLAND. [/B]

How do you define overpriced? Also, why does the kid have to own all that gear. Everything costs something, cars, houses, clothes. Shoes are the most overpriced rip off items marketed. Friends of mine have been quoted USD$2.00 per shoe for the same shoe that the N, V or other brand you want to name. He just has to buy them in 40 ft containers of one size only. The markups on this is far in excess of what happens to music gear.

Quality costs money because it takes a lot of research and development and a lot of investment to manufacture stuff and that money needs to come from the sale of the products. I'm not saying that some people are not profiteering from it, but a blanket statement that it's all overpriced is undefendable. There's a huge market out there for gear at cheaper prices, if it were possible to get the price down, someone would be doing it.

I buy the best gear I can possibly get and hire it to people as well as use it myself. I have never regretted buying quality gear. No-one hires one of my Neumann mics and comes back saying it wasn't as good as their Rode or whatever. It's the opposite, I can loan something like a mic or preamp or compressor and they are almost hooked, they can hardly cope with not having it. Why? because it sounds so good. How do you get that sound? you buy something that someone put hundreds, thousands of hours, or indeed a whole lifetime into designing and making. They need to live and every part of the item needs to be top quality, all of those parts are expensive. The item costs what it costs, if it wasn't woth the cost, no-one would buy it.

As for Roland, they deserve to be slated if they don't back their product, no matter what it cost.

 

[Toker41]

Quality costs money because it takes a lot of research and development and a lot of investment to manufacture stuff and that money needs to come from the sale of the products. I'm not saying that some people are not profiteering from it, but a blanket statement that it's all overpriced is undefendable.

OK, how do you defend the $2500 for a Les Paul? No RnD there. Then there is the $30 guitar cable. Have you played any of that lower end under $1000 crap? $1000 for that crap!! Why is it that those that can afford the higher end stuff never have and sympathy for this arguement. I know cars, and homes and everything else cost money, but this is a gear site.

As for Roland, they deserve to be slated if they don't back their product, no matter what it cost.

We agree there. But the jury is still out on this, so don't blast them just yet. Reaching them doesn't seem easy, but does seem like it can be done. Can't say I've checked into it too deep, I just didn't like the real lack of support on the web site.

 

[Atterion]

Well first off the UB2442FX has 8 mono and 8 stereo channels (Not just 2), and 2 of the stereo channels do have additional XLR inputs (Plus this board has 4 aux sends, with 4 stereo returns, and 4 busses), I have never thought their effects to be bad units. My first behringer was the MX602a, and it was OK unless you had to use all the channels at once. They just didn't sum up properly at the master (of course probably due to the fact it is hard to set levels with a 4-5 light level meter and rotary knobs.

Now I own several pieces of Behringer stuff, and here are a couple of quick reviews.

(1) UB2442FX & (1) UB1832FX Mixers- Low noise, No crosstalk, Decent Preamps, and very nice EQ (The UB1832FX also features 9 band Graphic EQ for the Mains). Effects are decent but have no adjustable parameters (You'd need to by the full Virtualizer unit for that).

(2) DSP8024- Nice dual 31 band Graphic EQ (Plus 6 bands of parametric EQ/Shelving). Lots of editing functions, plus you can link to computer (like most Behringer units), for realtime automated editing or just more user friendly programming. Unit features Realtime Analyzer, and Feedback Destroyer (Better when used with Behringer's Reference Mic, which has it's own Input, and it's sole purpose is to listen to room response, and tell the unit what frequencies are getting out of control). The units also have built in Limiters, and Gates (Can't really comment on them though because I don't use them often).

(2) COMPOSER PRO-XL MDX2600- I like these units. I have actually moved my DBX units out of my main rack to make room for these units (I still use the DBX units in my Guitar and Bass Racks). A lot of features for your money.

(1) Ultrabass Pro- Well I can only say so much about seismic disturbances. Serious low end (Readlay low B on the bass through this unit at 800w, and you may be legally obliged to post warnings for elderly, pregnant, and people with heart conditions).

Next purchase:Tube Composer T1952

Of course I will never replace my Focusrite Preamps, for behringer ones. They're not that good.

 

[Abelskeeper]

When I was 15, a cheap $100 guitar was really a $100 cheap ass guitar. No one could afford more than one pedal, and cheap amps sucked too. Younger kids now days have it good and just don't know it. For $300 nowadays any kid can have a decent guitar/amp/efx processor that would blow away any thing in that price range 15 years ago. Just saying, if you think you've got it bad, be glad you didn't pop out 15 years sooner,lol. Just like the thought of having a home studio like many of us have now wasn't even fathomed 15 years ago. My 24 track studio would have cost $50,000 or more even 10 years ago, and wouldn't have be capable of even a fraction of what I can do now. Cheer up guys, it'll only get better.

Terry

 

[Toker41]

Very good point. I guess I start to show my age when I bitch about the price of things. I still can't get over the $2500 for a Les Paul, though.

 

[acorec]

Very good point. I guess I start to show my age when I bitch about the price of things. I still can't get over the $2500 for a Les Paul, though.

Les Pauls for $2500???????????

Next you will tell me that Neumann will raise their prices.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Very good point. I guess I start to show my age when I bitch about the price of things. I still can't get over the $2500 for a Les Paul, though.

Sure if you are holding out for a Standard with all the trim. You can get a vanilla Studio for less than a grand new.