Behold now this Ash Black Sun \m/METAL\m/

  • Thread starter Thread starter VesuviusJay
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VesuviusJay

VesuviusJay

Poser Roaster
Ok this is going to be a kick ass post, hehe. I am eventually get some stars on one of my mix downs. Until then I persistantly work. It has been longer than usual since my last submittal. Which usually means I am researching and working hard on this crap. LOL Why? I am not sure yet but hopefully someday I will know.

Since I posted enough times to get my avatar finally I figured I would share something about my music. Where I got the name "vesuvius" for a death metal band: 2 places really first being Pink Floyd Live at Pompei; (those of you privy should understand) And more recently a show on Discovery channel that featured a home video shot in the ashfall of Mount St Helens. In watching that footage and realizing this fellow at times was saying to the camera he wasn't going to make it showed me a form of brutality I hadn't thought of. Was sticks out in my mind was how when he showed the view as he saw it, all you could see was a thin flat line on the horizon. All else was pitch black... I was really getting into extreme metal at the time and the name of one of the most brutal killers in nature... Vesuvius... Volcano... Yeah! And boom I had a great idea for a metal theme. And the title track of album one was concieved. Hot Pursuit. Plus I can be just as brutal as deicide or morbid angel and not have to preach satanism. Don't get me wrong, each to his/her own, but I prefer more interesting lyrics than a pure religious oriented band theme or song topic. BORING and it doesnt scare people anymore.;) Ironically enough, volcanos have always been sort of "evil" and fire and brimstone and pyroclastic flow and all that rot. Anyway, I could care less who ya worship, as long as it aint me, cause I have an overwhelming value for privacy. LOL Anyway, HORNS UP PEOPLE m/ for one of the coolest tracks on the first CD. Cheers

Behold
Now
My
Ash Black Sun...

Forget not this dark day,
Judgement day is here.
Growls of madness from deep in the earth,
Animals scatter in fear.
Unsuspecting victims’ fate,
Prophesy of death.
Exhumed centuries later,
My devastating breath.
BEHOLD NOW MY ASH BLACK SUN,
JOIN THE MASS DEMISE.
IN MINUTES DAY BECOMES NIGHT,
RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES.
MORTAL FOOLS THERE’S NO ESCAPE,
THERE IS NOWHERE TO RUN.
ATMOSPHERIC BLANKET OF DEATH
BEHOLD THIS ASH BLACK SUN.
Suffocating airborne debris,
Saturates the sky.
Asphyxiates life right in it’s tracks,
Its your turn to die.
The flat line n the horizon,
Taunts your every step.
Its laughter ringing in your ears,
The prophesy is kept.
CHORUS
Making the their way toward daylight,
Praying for one more gasp.
Stakes are high and chances are slim,
For escaping my smothering grasp
Some will live to tell the tale,
Of how I snuffed the day,
If you value your meager existence,
Stay the fuck out of my way.


http://www.nowhereradio.com/vesuvius/singles
 
Listening...

DISTORTION - Not cool Heavy Metal distortion, but nasty clipping distortion...

Any way you could get those guitars a little space? Some tight room-verb perhaps...

Nice programming on the drums - That must've taken a while.

Interesting change near the end of the track...

I'd really like to hear it without all that distortion... Don't get me wrong - I'm all about the Metal - But this seems squished beyond the acceptable Metalian norms... Especially with so many direct-recorded instruments, it really stands out...

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com
 
Ah I think maybe compressed too aggressively on the final track. Let me listen with fresh ears tomorrow. Maybe I'm not hearing it. Thanks!

Oh BTW the only instrument directly recorded was the bass. And it went through a tube pre. Any suggestions?
 
Jay,
this is a nice metal effort you have going here. I agree about the guitars though. They are still extremely gainy/small sounding. What type of amp/pedal and effects are you using for your guitar tones? What are you recording into?
The drum tones still sound like a drum machine but you did a good job programming. What are you using for this? I program some but I don't have the patience to try and make it sound real lol. I usually just program some basic stuff and then get a real drummer to do the final take.
Don't want to knock your ideas but Vocano's and HOT Pursuit is kind of cheesy in my opinion for metal of this style. Its almost corny like Cannibal Corpse or something along those lines.
 
Thanks for listening bro!! LMMFAO dude my very first mix down was the cheeziest thing you have ever heard. ROFL I still pop it in on occasion for a good old fassioned gutbuster.

Actually we're not really a "theme" so to speak, that was just how I arrived at the name. I really don't want to be stuck in some sort of "theme" anyway. We have diverse lyrics actually, with a wide variety of topics and symbalisms. But to be honest to me vesuvius represents one thing... Out of control pit worthy guitar driven artistic mayhem!! :>

Well Im open to your guitar suggesions I guess I am just unsure what you mean by thin. Maybe panning to hard?
 
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jay,
it is hard to put into words. I guess by thin I mean that they sound sort of Brittle. The distortion has loads of gain and is sort of unfocused. It seems to take away from the actual playing.
If you like it then thats what matters the most. Not everyone is into the same guitar tone. If you want to work on it some, post your signal chain for your guitar and I will try and help you tame it.
Great effort either way man.
 
Please excuse my ignorance bro but what exactly do you mean by signal chain? I am most definately interested in examining closer.

Any help or guidence you invest is greatly appreciated man! It is discouraging when you post a mix down looking for help in fixing problems and the only oppinion they give is either about performance or style or some other unrelated issue.

For me I could care less about oppinions on performance or style unless one of those things is impeding my mix. I mean bottom line, as an engineer, are we interested in style or performance flaws? I may be interested in performance AFTER I figure out how to mic everything properly. For me that mic placement sometimes takes tracking a whole damn song in and seeing how the instruments work together no? So Ill post my efforts here until I get a good consensus of positive feedback. THEN I will maticulously track perfect performance and do the best I possibly can.

Anyone reading this post, please keep in mind none of these mix downs are in anyway going to be sent for mastering, and the feedback I am looking for is suggestions to correct something I dont like about the sound of the track(s).

Please let me know what information you need and if you can help diagnose my flaw. THANKS BRO, HORNS UP\M/
 
signal chain- what guitar, what goes between the guitar and amp, what amp. From there what type of mic, into what type of pre, what type of eq/effects are you applying at mixdown.

Any of this info can help diagnose where the nasty distortion is coming from.
 
Ah thank you for the explaination! Of course! Actually I am a bit anal on my signal chain, so I am sure most of it will be to your liking.

Jackson Kelly Performer{EMG 81 bridgeside, 85 Neckside} === =monster cable==> Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier ==monster speaker==> Mesa boogie 280W rectifier cabinet == Stereo pair of Beta SM57a placed using the following method [I first dial my amp tone until it is at loud as possible in the room without "booming". This takes a little bit and I end up rolling off quit a bit of bass because I don't have bass traps or the best of accoustics. I work at it for a little bit until I like what I hear through the monitors. Then I hit the standby on my head, unplug the axe, and turn the amp back on. I get a fairly flat overdrive buzz tone. I turn that buzz up fairly loud. Then I place the first 57 on the stand in front of the top left speker about 1" from the cloth. I then mute the monitors and get the headphones, and turn up the right fader until the meter reads fairly close to 0db. Then, listening to the signal through the headphones, I find the highest output spot on the amp by probing for the spot where the buzz is loudest. As you move the mic arround the cabinet face you will hear the buzz volume fluctuate. I find the loudest spot which usually ends pointing at the bottom inner edge of the top right speaker. I then lock that mic into place pointing at a 90 degree angle to the front cloth. Then place the other 57 at equal height, distance, and angle in front of the top right speaker, plug it in, reverse the phase, and turn the fader up to equal meter with the other mic. Listening to the mono mix I sweep the second mic accross the cloth from left to right keeping distance and height equal the first one. Again you will hear the volume fluctuate as you sweep the mic. This time I probe for the spot that sounds the QUIETEST. If you have good headphones you will find a spot where the buzz seems to dissapear. Lock the other mic in this position. When finished the mics should look like they are mirror images of each other. Then I flip the phase back on mic 2, plug the axe back in, and get blown out of my seat when I unmute the monitors. In fact the tone through the monitors almost sounds just as huge as the tone directly from the cabinet. If I am not mistaking by using that technique I am placing the mics in good additive phase. I plug the mics into a Tascam US-122, and feed the mono signal into Nuendo 2.0 which I use to track and mix.

Im not sure if you wanted so much detail but my experience so far has been that sometimes the smallest adjustment makes the biggest difference. I am fairly confident that my signal chain is OK. It sounds great through the monitors and all my gear is less than a year old. I think I have done something in mixdown that may be causing it. What do you reckon?
 
Jay,
there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with your method. I have seen Pipeline audio preach that approach of micing guitar cabs many times so we know it is tried and true.
What do the dry guitar tracks sound like before you do any processing in your software? Have you ever tried any mics besides the 57 on your cab? Just curious, I have grown to strongly dislike the 57 on guitar cabs in most situations. It gives the tracks a honky sounding midrange which for metal guitars is just bad in my experience.
Have you tried recording with less gain on your mesa? It may sound weird at first but will sound alot bigger in the final mix down.
Any of these things may help but I can't really help without actually being there and hearing the amp and stuff. If you like it though then stick with it. Good luck man hope some of this helps
 
brutal tune! good outro idea, although it could happen a little smoother.... maybe mute the ride so it doesn't sound so much like a count off for the outro.. some of the crash cymbals are a bit too dynamic (like @0:35 and 3:00) and some of the outro drum fills sound a bit mechanical.. I like the part though.. sounds like there is too much limiting.. hearing distortion... I like the tune!
 
I hate to say it, but the clipping is still alive and well...

Better, if I remember correctly though... Most of it's on the cymbal crashes at this point...
 
the mix...

cymbals clipping...

seems to have a blanket over the whole mix...

drums sound triggered...

imaging was pretty good...

overall more negative than positive


the song...

if you can get the mix fixed... i think it's pretty cool... actually I liked it a lot... there's a lot going on with the tempo changes and such... liked the ending just before the bass... but not the bass

overall more positive than negative
 
VesuviusJay said:
What do you mean "blanket" Like dull?
Click to expand...
yea... dull and a general lack of crispness.

I think all the parts are there, it's just going to be a matter of putting them together... and you'd have a killer metal tune.
 
Bump!!!

Hey guys! I did a remix on this track this weekend. I was very carefull to mix the drums at -2 and the rest between -7 and -3. I am not sure if compressing the final mix caused clipping, but I was hoping you guys would have one more listen as I am trying to dial in this mix to send for mastering. Any pro ear advice would be greatly appreciated. I overcompensated the high's through my monitors and it seemed to add quite a bit of crispness. What do you think? I don't think it is quite crisp enough, but I am hoping to get it close enough to master.

\m/JAY\m/


(higher bandwidth than nowhere)
or

http://www.nowhereradio.com/vesuvius/singles
 
this is a lot better from what I remember from before... I wish you had left the other version on NoWhere so I could compare

The Splash cymbal in the left speaker is still distorted (too harsh)... and too loud... maybe run the cymbals through a hi pass filter and roll off starting at 6k with a gentle slope. play with this and see if you can tame the cymbals. Also, I feel the cymbals are just to loud.

in my previous comment... a better description may have been the first post was too dense and not airy

this is better though...
 
This second listen, I can recognize the song from a couple of days ago. The intro is cool. The cymbals are a lot less hot than the old version. At .09 the kick and cymbal briefly tear the headphones, everything else sounds good. I think it's improving with age. Second time round it's starting to grow on me. Good stuff
 
OK here is my 3rd stab at it. I hate nowhere radio, and I have excellent bandwidth on my website, so I will just link you to the audio streams from there.


(This is the second one I posted)


(New Mix from today)

I tamed the cymbals and lows on the bass drum a little. It seemed the bass drums were a bit too powerfull. Tell me what you think now. I think I almost have it.

And in case you feel like hearing one more for critique. Please click

\m/JAY\m/
 
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