Beginning with lots of questions

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angelas

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First, I am so happy to find this site. It's so great to know there are people supporting each other and offering their experiences and knowledge.

This is where I am at. I know nothing about equipment but my desire is 24/7 to record and perform my lyrics. I am a long time performer but am now deciding to invest in my longest known dream.

Okay, here are the questions:

I've decided to buy some very simple recording equipment:

*Tascam Porta 02 4track recorder
*Shure SM-58 mic plus a stand
* recommended headphones: Samson CH70 Closed-Back Studio headphones
* recommended Roland MA8WH Monitors
(The headphones and Monitors recommended via an internet site that sells equipment.)
Here are my questions:
- What's the difference between a monitor/speaker/pa?
-Can I get something for practice that will go to stage,if so what?
-Can I use the speakers mentioned above with my tascam and plug in my headphones to those? I have a computer and wouldn't mind using them with that as well but I haven't gone midi yet.
-What is a pre-amp and do I need one with all of this for vocals?
-I want a pop filter but which one? What is the difference in quality between a lyrca and nylon filter?
-I also want an effect on my voice (like echo, reverb) Do I get a pedal? Which one?
-Do any of you recommend the DigiTech 300 or the vocal enhancer ( I think it's called, the one where you can add harmonies, which I would like to do)
I am very excited about making my dream into a realistic goal. Any info you can recommend, is much appreciated. Mind you, I know nothing about equipment so bare with me!
 
You've got a lot of questions. My first recomendation would be to hold off on those purchases until you do a little more research.

For a good live/recording setup I would recomend:

A good mixer like a Mackie or Spirit. That will give you a lot of flexibility and options for using mics and instruments.

Use your computer to record on. For the price of a crappy casette 4track you can get a sound card and software that will sound 10x better. This has nothing to do with midi. You will use your computer as the multi track. Now you have 8-24+ tracks depending on your computer.

Figure that part out first and then tackle what mics and effects units to get.

SM58- good
pedal - bad, get a rack effects unit for recording.
 
Hi angelas. Welcome to the board! :)

So, for those questions:

- What's the difference between a monitor/speaker/pa?

A monitor is for listening to music while recording and mixing. It is VERY accurate and doesn't always sound good. If you get it to sound really good on your monitors, it will likely sound good on every other system. They are typically pretty pricey compared to similar sized commercial speakers.

Commercial speakers are designed to make everything sound good. They aren't the best for recording and mixing because you can't hear what needs to be fixed.

PA= public address. A LOUD system for pumping audio out to a large group. They aren't necessarily focused on sound quality.

Both monitors and speakers need an amplifier. Some monitors, called powered or active monitors, have their own built in. PA systems typically are a combination of mixer, amp, and speakers.

-Can I get something for practice that will go to stage,if so what?

The sm58, stand, and cable. Any effects unit, too, though you'll want to be really careful moving it around. There may be some mixers that record well and are useful for the stage (Mackies? I don't know. Anyone?) but most are designed for either studio or live use.

-Can I use the speakers mentioned above with my tascam and plug in my headphones to those?

You can probably plug the headphones into the tascam itself.

-I have a computer and wouldn't mind using them with that as well...

I totally agree with Tex. If you aren't intimidated by computers, you will have a far better recording system with your computer for the same money you would spend on the tascam. The tascam is simpler, though.

-What is a pre-amp and do I need one with all of this for vocals?

Mic signals are pretty weak and need a pre-amplifier to make it loud enough for your mixing and recording hardware. The tascam has some cheap ones that will work fine with your sm58. If you decide to get a better vocal mic (for recording, NOT live) like a large condensor mic, you'll also need phantom power for it. That mean a mixer or another preamp that can provide it. There are many good, inexpensive ones.

-I want a pop filter but which one? What is the difference in quality between a lyrca and nylon filter?

No difference, I'd guess.

-I also want an effect on my voice (like echo, reverb) Do I get a pedal? Which one?

I would go for a rack unit instead of a pedal. Pedals are noisey- OK for live, but not good at all for recording. I use all digital (and free) effects in my computer for recording, so I can't recommend any hardware units.

Good luck - and stick around a bit :) There's a heap of good information around here and always a new trick or inspiration.

Take care,
Chris
 
Thank you TexRoadkill

Thanks for your informative replies. Okay, I had my reservations with buying the Tascam since I don't even own a cassette anymore. It was purely for the simplicity and price. I didn't want an excuse not to get the ball rolling. Price is definitely an issue. I did not understand before that you can record on a computer and it still would not be Midi. I though it was Midi or nothing. So that is good news. I use my computer for work out of my home but really mostly with the internet not computer applications. I feel my way around to learn anything. I just didn't want to end up spending the next several months figuring out how to use something and not get to the creative part of making songs (not that recording and mixing isn't one of the most creative parts, just not where my strength is).

Now, on to your suggestions. I looked up Mackie and Spirit and they look great but out of my price range considering everything I need to get at this point. I viewed them at: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837. The Spirit had the least expensive mixer at $479 but the Mackie was $600-$1000

As far as recording on my computer, I have an iMac, 0S9 system. Do you have any suggestions on what I need to purchase for computer recording?

I really appreciate your input. Going to a music store with no knowledge has not been the best thing to do in the past.
 
Thank you to Chris

Thanks Chris for the equipment 101. I probably never asked the question in a music store. Okay, so you both agree to spend the money on computer recording. I am fine with that since I know now I don't have to go MIDI. I just don't want to start out with something too complicated.

Okay,
So this is what I have learned but correct me if I am wrong.

I should focus on my recording equipment first, then focus on my live equipment later since they may be completely different equipment.

The Shure SM58 is good but a large condenser mic is better for quality recording.

I need monitor speakers to record so you can really hear what you actually recorded and not a prettier version. (so are the roland Roland MA8WH Monitors okay?)

I need a mixer for recording and for live work. When you get a computer card is there a mixer software or must you have the actual hardware outside your computer?

Do I need the pre-amp to record on the computer?

Can I get effects software? Is that what I understood instead of buying the "rack unit"?

I just want to get started. I want to at least practice with my voice and the mic and hear it , then record and explore. Today I can spend under $600 and keep adding on every month as needed.

So your suggestions are deeply appreciated.
 
Is this what you're talking about?

As you can see I am busting at the seems to get this going. Is this what you are talking about? What do you think? BTW-My only instrument is my voice though I am really interested in creating original rhythms and beats via the computer. Otherwise, I will be gathering musicians once the the frames of the songs are created.
-Cubase VST 5.0 Steinberg's Cubase VST transforms your Macintosh into a complete recording studio. Cubase's integration of audio and MIDI recording makes it easy to combine the best the MIDI world has to offer with your own audio recordings and even virtual synthesizers. Just by using a simple MIDI interface with your Macintosh, any combination of MIDI keyboards and MIDI sound modules can be connected. Cubase also prints your MIDI parts as notes, with text and titles. The automatic layout function makes good looking score print-outs very easy.
For the audio features, no expensive additional DSP hardware is required. As a minimum we would suggest a small mixer and a good monitoring system, but as your needs grow, you can add multiple inputs and outputs with very cost effective PCI audio cards. But one thing to remember is that Cubase is complete; Quality audio effects are included, and can be extended later with an ever increasing selection of Plug-ins, so you probably only need the extra ins & outs to integrate your current hardware effects or mixing desk. We call this the Virtual Studio Technology.
 
Cubase is a great program. It may be a little overwhelming at first though. You might want to start with something simple like Ntracks (not sure if it works on a Mac).

If you dont play an instrument you will have a hard time fleshing out anything unless you have some type of sampler for loops or a synth with some preset patterns and rythms.

Check out used prices on those mixers also. There are usually a few on www.ebay.com

You make a good point about the multi track being easier to start with. Just get a digital one if you decide to go that route. Casettes sound like crap. If money isnt a huge concern than getting a simple unit to start with is a good idea. But if your poor and it's going to be your only recorder for a few years than I would really consider what you want to do so your not stuck with a limited machine.
 
In reply to TexRoadkill

Hi again,

Thanks so much for the feedback. It would be a long and hard search to get this information blindly walking in a music store. I want to get the list of what I need walk in and have them get it.

I saw Ntracks in another post that I think you actually posted to someonelse. It looks as though it only works on PCs. That's my only concern is figuring something out. I don't want to blow up my computer either since it's not a huge system. It's not bad but all my work is done on it and it's not a play toy.

I agree, I really didn't want a cassette recorder. I can't stand to hear the sound of a cassette. No, I am not rich but I do okay. I will be able to build on whatever I get. I am estimating at this point that a decent over all studio for now will run about 1,000 from what I am looking at and then it's endless from there. I just don't want to get equipment happy and have a bunch of stuff that is too overwhelming to use.

Basically I want something I can practice and refine my voice. I will be doing spoken word/singing. I have a cheap keyboard for basic stuff just to have a frame to work in but I know I will have to get a sampler. I have some other instruments such as a Reconga and a beautiful Djembe I had made in Senegal. I am a lyricist/singer/stage performer and want to leave the music to musicians. I do however have much music inside and it might be interesting learning how to mix some stuff together in order to have other musicians understand the sound I am going for on a particular piece. That's the goal anyway. Also for exercise, I have some beats dowloaded from mp3.com in order to loosely fit my lyrics to the ones that give the right mood.

Just wanted to give you a better idea of what I am trying to do. The stage is the goal. It's been a long time and this will be my show I am creating. I appreciate the directions immensely.
 
If you are thinking of doing mainly song scratch pad types of stuff than a smaller digital 4 or 8 track will probably do fine. Computers give you a lot more flexibility and bang for the buck. But ultimately whatever inspires and works for you will be the best value. You might want to check out one of the multitracks with built in rythms and drums.
 
TexRoadkill

Thanks for all the support. I will find my way. I think I will buy the condenser mic, monitor speakers, then start building with the recording software, mixer, and so forth.

I would be interested in knowing what you do musically. If you don't mind sharing.
 
angelas,

Welcome!

Seems like your on the right track.

I started out on a Tascam 4-track,you can get pretty good sound if you do it right.

You can't go wrong with a large condenser,they are dirt cheap these days and of good quality.

Just be aware of a couple of things,they pick up every noise around,and require phantom power,(you can buy a small phantom power unit relitivly cheap.)

For reverb,Lexicon makes a low end unit under $200,it's pro reverb and you'll never outgrow it.
You definatly need reverb of some kind in a rack unit.

My advice is keep asking questions,check out the other forums,and plan for the future.

Look at everything you buy as towards getting a pro sound.
Because once you really get into recording,that's what your going to want.
Better to buy good pieces now,then have to buy them again.
If you take your time,you'll find the best gear at the best prices around here.

As far as Cubase,I have it and almost never use it,my computer dosn't have enough power.
Most high end computer programs are hogs,so beware.

Good luck

Best to you,
Pete
 
To Texroadkill

Thanks for the link to listen.

I can say how thankful to you and everyone here that is so giving of information. I listened to your music. I enjoyed the sound. Funny, Cat Stevens started in my head after.
 
Welcome, Angelas- I'm having the same fun, but I've really now completed the 3 month harware wars. My system is hardware,
not computer based, so I will offer little tech advice, because I think others are right to advise you to build on your MAC for your needs. For instance, Lexicon reverb/multieffects was mentioned, and for a hardware based system, it is a no brainer, but if you go the computer route, it might be a useless box (and I'll buy it used from you). Take time!!!! This is a process, and you can buy a whole lotta stuff you don't need by getting ahead of yourself.
Try this- make your hardware list and run it past 3 experienced engineers (you'll find them here, I'm not one). Make changes to your list based on their recommendations. When all 3 of them say "yeah, that's a plan", then buy. Also, don't be afraid to put a layaway or deposit on a used item you're *sure* you will need, but don't buy used stuff that you can't audition (listen to) unless you know the sellers well enough to trust them. Whenever a salesman suggests any piece of equipment, look for independant reviews of it on line and compare with similar pieces of equipment. The music you save may be your own! Good luck- Richie
 
Thank you Muzeman

Well, I am leaning toward a digital recording device or program now. I am thankful for your info about programs. I have an iMac 0S9 and it is being eaten up just by my mp3 downloads.

I have been looking at virtually every post on the site for more info and I cam across one regarding recording with Mac.

Are you familiar with Digital Performer? From what I read, (if I understand correctly), it has a built in mixer and chorus, flange etc effects. So does that mean, I only need the mic/speakers/headphones, cables to begin?

If all these programs are going to jack my computer then I what kind of digital equipment can I get instead? I just want to get going. I have a lot down on paper but I need to work with my voice and hear what I am doing. I want to make a commitment if you know what I mean.

I throughly agree with buying good equipment and once I know how to use something I will definitely know if it is crap. I have good taste and ear but not big enough pockets (yet) to accomodate!

If the condenser mic picks up on everything, would it better just to get the shure SM58? My place has a lot of noise from traffic and hardwood floors.

Your feedback is appreciated.
 
Thanks Richard

There's still layaway where you are? Wow! Cool! Had to laugh cuz I would really use that option if it existed in Los Angeles. I think I am starting to narrow down things thanks to my research on the web including the research that brought me here. Funny, how many people I have met along the years in the music biz but most like keeping everything a mystery. I love to offer info in my fields of experience and expertise. It's nice to see like minded people here.

Okay, everyone knows I will get the condenser mic or the shure. I would like suggestions on an easy to use quality digital recording device if I don't go the computer program route. It seems I will have more equipment to buy with this route but if I buy the software (thinking about Digital Performer) I could lose my computer if it crashes permanently which I really can't afford to do. It already happened last year.
I have also asked about these Roland monitor speakers-Roland MA8WH Monitors. I don't need $600 speakers since I am not trying to distribute a CD.
I just need to hear what I am doing and then know what to fix. I need the headphones, suggestions on all?

Thanks for being interested
 
angelas - I briefly commented on your need for monitors and headphones in this thread.
 
angelas,

If you do a search on Erland you'll see what you can do with minimal equippment!

He uses a digital 4 track from Boss I believe,and a cheap Shure mic that came with the unit.
Granted,he's a great talent,but it's a good example of great sound on a limited budget.

I would say if your not going to use a computer,go for a digital multitrack.
It all dependes on how many tracks you want,and your budget?

As far as monitors,I have a 16 track recorder and use an old stereo to monitor.
Works for me,monitors will be my last investment.


The 58 is a great mic,but really designed for live use.
(though people do use them to record with.)

A condenser is going to give you the best sound,but like I said,not to forgiving in a noisey enviornment.

There are ways to deal with it though.
You can hang blankets or buy soundproofing.
(That's what I do,then wait for the jets to pass by!)

A lot depends also on what type of music you record.
If you do acoustic stuff,a condenser is almost a must.
With rock you could probably use a dynamic to good effect.

There are a lot of variables,especially with mics!

You should at least go and try out a couple of condensers and dynamics at the music store,and see what type of mic is suited to your voice.
Your mic is going to be the most important and most difficult thing to buy!

Hope this helps,

Best to you,
Pete
 
Hey angelas, glad you've joined us.

You can get a Mackie 1202 new for around $450 and used, maybe half that. Also you can get a roland or fostex DAW with 8 tracks for about $550 or $600. If you got one of those, it would have all your mixer and even some effects built in. And you're not even really limited to 8 tracks 'cause they have what's called virtual tracks that allow you to actually record more than 8 tracks although you have to juggle things around a bit to use them all.

I don't know anything about computer recording since I use all stand alone stuff but these guys here know a lot about it and I think you can rely on getting some good advice here. I just think that an all in one unit like the Fostex or Roland might be easier to deal with in the beginning. I'm looking forward to hearing you when you get going. :)
 
Thanks Lt. Bob

Lt. Bob said:
Hey angelas, glad you've joined us.

You can get a Mackie 1202 new for around $450 and used, maybe half that. Also you can get a roland or fostex DAW with 8 tracks for about $550 or $600. If you got one of those, it would have all your mixer and even some effects built in. And you're not even really limited to 8 tracks 'cause they have what's called virtual tracks that allow you to actually record more than 8 tracks although you have to juggle things around a bit to use them all.

I don't know anything about computer recording since I use all stand alone stuff but these guys here know a lot about it and I think you can rely on getting some good advice here. I just think that an all in one unit like the Fostex or Roland might be easier to deal with in the beginning. I'm looking forward to hearing you when you get going. :)
Click to expand...

I am very excited about the future of my work. I think the computer may be more than I can handle recording wise. I will keep narrowing it down until I click with something I can work with. I would love to share the work that comes out of it with you. Until then, I am reading, researching and writing!
 
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