beautiful way

[heatmiser]

Hey,

Here is another recording I came across from '06. It is a cover of a laid back tune by Beck (I think from odelay) - tracked at lower levels than I do now, so more tape hiss than I'd like. The vocals were horrendous, so I re-did them a few nights ago and added some percussion as well. It sounds much better, but then you all have nothing to compare it to...so you'll have to trust me on that.

Any suggestions, thoughts, advice?...it is quite long, but I have a high tolerance for that sort of thing. Any suggestions on when to fade out (other than 5 seconds in )?

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=660667&songID=7208279

Thanks in advance as always.

- Pete

 

[propman]

I really REALLY like this. This has always been one of my favorite beck songs. (It's the only one I know. It came with my old computer. lol) You did a very good version of it here. It is hard to believe that you recorded this on a tape machine. It is so clean sounding. If you want me to be honest, I think I like your version better. You have a very cool way of doing songs. Very well done. Would you be interested in a collab?

 

[K-dub]

Like the version, and the performance ... and this, too, is a personal fave -- but there's TONS of lo mid mud in your percussion, bud ... and it's creating a lo mid fog that's blurring the sound.

Go back into the low end and see if, between all the elements you've got going in that region ... look to scooping some of the fog out and clearing the sonic air.

Best place to isolate and test is in the 240-600 range ... kind of play w/ a wide eq at first, and then once the air clears ... narrow the q until you hear the fog reappear ... then slightly widen it again.

Start w/ the kick ... but then move on to the other instruments with freq power centered in the low end.

Are you up in Raymond? I've a place in Harpswell ... Did you lose power too in the ice storm?

Good start on this btw ...

Kev-

 

[heatmiser]

I really REALLY like this. This has always been one of my favorite beck songs. (It's the only one I know. It came with my old computer. lol) You did a very good version of it here. It is hard to believe that you recorded this on a tape machine. It is so clean sounding. If you want me to be honest, I think I like your version better. You have a very cool way of doing songs. Very well done. Would you be interested in a collab?

Thanks propman! Your feedback was reassuring...(maybe the nicest I've received). Yes, I am on a strictly cassette-based platform here...there are a bunch of problems that go along with that for me anyway, but I won't bore you with the details...

I would be so completely psyched to do a collab! I think I've mentioned how much I enjoy your tunes. The big problem is that I have no idea how to work that technologically speaking...

My set up is a stand alone cassette portastudio, so even if I found a way to import say a wav file via cd into my tascam, there might be a considerable amount of degradation by the time I spat out some new tracks...but I will try to think of a way to do it...if anyone here has any ideas on how to collab when one person is using tape...please let me know.

Thanks again.

 

[heatmiser]

Like the version, and the performance ... and this, too, is a personal fave -- but there's TONS of lo mid mud in your percussion, bud ... and it's creating a lo mid fog that's blurring the sound.

Go back into the low end and see if, between all the elements you've got going in that region ... look to scooping some of the fog out and clearing the sonic air.

Best place to isolate and test is in the 240-600 range ... kind of play w/ a wide eq at first, and then once the air clears ... narrow the q until you hear the fog reappear ... then slightly widen it again.

Start w/ the kick ... but then move on to the other instruments with freq power centered in the low end.

Are you up in Raymond? I've a place in Harpswell ... Did you lose power too in the ice storm?

Good start on this btw ...

Kev-

Awesome. Thanks Kev! That is definitely the most specific advice I've ever gotten here. Much appreciated.

I went back and listened for what you're talking about and I think I am with you. Being a slow tune, I kinda wanted a reverberated 'thump' to it, but maybe I got carried away. The drum track you hear at the very outset is all there is through the first half of the song. I have since started recording a drum machine through a variety of sources simultaneously so I can almost alter the kick or snare independent of one another, but this is all on one track.

I think the primary offender here may be the 'bass" guitar. Recorded 2 yrs ago with an electric guitar heavily eq'd and (gasp) verbed out, I think it sounds like a hollow, lumbering shadow of a bass. I am getting a cheap dean bass from MF this week and may re-track the bass guitar on this. I am sure I can get a better defined, less mud-compiling track that way. I will do my best to burn away that fog.

Yes, in raymond for the last 10 yrs or so. Love it. Grew up in brunswick so spent a ton of my childhood in harpswell. Really nice place. No, we never lost power during that storm, although my internet connection was down for a couple of hours!

 

[propman]

I think the primary offender here may be the 'bass" guitar. Recorded 2 yrs ago with an electric guitar heavily eq'd and (gasp) verbed out, I think it sounds like a hollow, lumbering shadow of a bass. I am getting a cheap dean bass from MF this week and may re-track the bass guitar on this. I am sure I can get a better defined, less mud-compiling track that way. I will do my best to burn away that fog.

Yes, in raymond for the last 10 yrs or so. Love it. Grew up in brunswick so spent a ton of my childhood in harpswell. Really nice place. No, we never lost power during that storm, although my internet connection was down for a couple of hours!

Hmm. Getting one from MF huh? lol. What MF are you getting it from?
Seriously though, I think it sounds fine. I like the weird bass "Fog". Check your PMs by the way.

-Adam.

 

[K-dub]

In the future, Pete ... although there are no hard rules, there are hard "suggestions" ... ... track certain things "dry" and add the effects afterward during mix down.

Things traditionally tracked "dry" would include drums (although room mics/space enhancer tracks are tracked separately w/ them for appropriate blending later) ... and bass ... and other percussive sounds ... and piano, and acoustic guitar. One usually wants to start w/ such things dry, so as to protect their "natural" sound -- and then twist to one's heart's content later.

It is usually okay to track other things wet ... as the effects are part of the arranged sound as it goes in. Such elements would include say an electric guitar lead or rhythm or keyboard pads ... and other such things that aren't really "natural" sounding on their own ... the effect IS part of their signature sound.

Low frequencies always mask the freqs above ... 1k will mask 10k, 500 will mask 1k -- 50 will mask 500 etc ... so control of the low freq content is critical to clarity in a mix.

... PARTICULARLY IF THERE IS A SHITLOAD OF IT REVERBERATING OFF THE WALLS ...

I wasn't shouting btw ... just highlighting the point.

Almost invariably, low end reverb on low end rich content will fog up a mix faster than your windshield after hot showering and jumping in your car on a cold morning.

That's why you have to eq your reverb ... and mixing is all about such control over the sound. It's okay to eq a kick, but ... you don't really want to be hearing the low end reverberate ... for you won't hear it clearly ... you'll hear it as low rumble fog ... which in a mix will (see above) all the freqs above it. Same thing applies to say toms and snare and ... well, bass too.

In such cases you aux out to the reverb, and you control the fog by high passing the low end to the point where you hear the reverb, but lose the fog.

The same technique should be employed when you've too much reverb on the top end too ... which would create instead of a fog -- too much reverb "wash" ... and everything sounds like it's swimming in verb (vocals are particularly susceptible) ... what you do to control it is roll off the top end of the reverb ... and less high freq=our ears noticing it less.

Just a little info to chew on ...

Best,

Kev-

 

[heatmiser]

Ok, new mix at the top and below for your convenience .

Tried to clear out some of the fog with mixed results. I never eq'd fx before, but I think I trimmed some of the low end reverb but am left with the wash you describe. Also re-tracked the bass with an actual bass guitar.

The bass is alternately overpowering and non-existent depending on the playback device which I take to be a bad sign. Anyway, please give it a listen and let me know how it sounds whether you heard the 1st mix or not.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=660667&songID=7208279

I think I addressed some of the issues raised by K-dub but have perhaps created new ones...I think I have overall level issues now..?

 

[WhiteStrat]

Well I missed the first version, but I'm really digging this one. Whatever "lo-fi" qualities exist in this one, are actually working for the tune. It's got a real sweet laid back groove.

I'm hearing this in my fantasy convertible on a fantasy road trip through the fantasy desert...

 

[propman]

Ok, new mix at the top and below for your convenience .

Tried to clear out some of the fog with mixed results. I never eq'd fx before, but I think I trimmed some of the low end reverb but am left with the wash you describe. Also re-tracked the bass with an actual bass guitar.

The bass is alternately overpowering and non-existent depending on the playback device which I take to be a bad sign. Anyway, please give it a listen and let me know how it sounds whether you heard the 1st mix or not.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=660667&songID=7208279

I think I addressed some of the issues raised by K-dub but have perhaps created new ones...I think I have overall level issues now..?

You know, I liked the first mix better. I liked the boom underwater sound. I miss it. Any way you could send me that? I like this one a lot though too. It does have a really good quality to it that I am really starting to like.

 

[rayc]

You have a lovely way with a portastudio.
I've always struggled with my Yammie MT100 in that I could not figure out a recording sequence and panning enough in advance to go beyond the basic 4 tracks until I started "uploading" the completed tracks into my computer.
A nice sound and a cool take on the song.
It's hartd to do all the nifty things Kdub suggests with a portastudio too - it takes soo much more thinking - how did they record so many excellent albums on 4 track and less - time and engineers who knew I suppose.

 

[K-dub]

Everything is MUCH clearer and defined, bud ...

... and the resultant sound is unique ... and better heard.

I'm not getting the low end variances you think you may have, and I alternately played it on several of my playback monitors.

But you've got this one pretty solid as of this point ... and nice work on the clean up.

Kev-

 

[joeym]

Totally cool, Heat, very original and alternative sounding.
Really like the lo-fi feel of it, kind of stoner-like.... No nits from me on the recording, sounds pretty awesome to me.

Cheers
Joe

 

[bigbubba]

Very nice job on the song. So much stuff going on. The solo at the end is just jamming. Interesting how the thumps seem to pick up towards the end. Overall, very nice.

 

[ido1957]

I think the primary offender here may be the 'bass" guitar. Recorded 2 yrs ago with an electric guitar heavily eq'd and (gasp) verbed out, I think it sounds like a hollow, lumbering shadow of a bass.


I am getting a cheap dean bass from MF this week and may re-track the bass guitar on this. I am sure I can get a better defined, less mud-compiling track that way. I will do my best to burn away that fog.

That's what I thought too - the "bass" is kinda clouding things up. Although the kick is also somewhat. I would like to hear the solos a bit more in spots.
Not familiar with the song - guess I bought a different PC! It's very well performed and the solos are excellent. It's overall a sonic delight with all its different components.

 

[beesee]

Cool! Great texture to this one. So many folks are making mixes sounding flat/2d. This one really has nice depth. Keep em coming!

 

[heatmiser]

Well I missed the first version, but I'm really digging this one. Whatever "lo-fi" qualities exist in this one, are actually working for the tune. It's got a real sweet laid back groove.

I'm hearing this in my fantasy convertible on a fantasy road trip through the fantasy desert...

Thank you WS! I'm really glad you enjoyed it.

You know, I liked the first mix better. I liked the boom underwater sound. I miss it. Any way you could send me that? I like this one a lot though too. It does have a really good quality to it that I am really starting to like.

Yeah, I was convinced this was better but side by side they just seemed different. The prior mix is a little smoother but not as balanced as this I think. This one seems to have a grittiness to it that I'm not sure I like. I could email you the other mp3...thanks much for listening btw.

You have a lovely way with a portastudio.
I've always struggled with my Yammie MT100 in that I could not figure out a recording sequence and panning enough in advance to go beyond the basic 4 tracks until I started "uploading" the completed tracks into my computer.
A nice sound and a cool take on the song.
It's hartd to do all the nifty things Kdub suggests with a portastudio too - it takes soo much more thinking - how did they record so many excellent albums on 4 track and less - time and engineers who knew I suppose.

Thank you ray. I enjoy trying to plot out in my head What will go where and I try to cram as much as I can into 8 tracks. Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to throw these tracks onto a PC (if I had the capability) and manipulate them further because I have a hard time with mixing everything in the moment. I've got like several fingers from each hand trying to turn knobs and faders by just the right amount at just the right time and inevitably I screw up and even though 5 mins into the song everything is cool, suddenly that one sound that I most wanted to remember to squelch comes through loud and clear and I realize I have to start over again. Frustrating.
I figure if I get digital at some point in the process I could automate all those settings tweaking it gradually until I get it right rather than having to start from scratch each mix.

Everything is MUCH clearer and defined, bud ...

... and the resultant sound is unique ... and better heard.

I'm not getting the low end variances you think you may have, and I alternately played it on several of my playback monitors.

But you've got this one pretty solid as of this point ... and nice work on the clean up.

Kev-

Thanks for checking back Kev! And thanks for the in depth advice...it really got me thinking about some new things.

Totally cool, Heat, very original and alternative sounding.
Really like the lo-fi feel of it, kind of stoner-like.... No nits from me on the recording, sounds pretty awesome to me.

Cheers
Joe

Great to hear Joe, thank you!!

 

[heatmiser]

Very nice job on the song. So much stuff going on. The solo at the end is just jamming. Interesting how the thumps seem to pick up towards the end. Overall, very nice.

Thanks bb! I worried that the guitar got buried at times in the end, so I'm really glad you caught enough of it to enjoy it. As you said - a lot of stuff going on. Thanks again .

That's what I thought too - the "bass" is kinda clouding things up. Although the kick is also somewhat. I would like to hear the solos a bit more in spots.
Not familiar with the song - guess I bought a different PC! It's very well performed and the solos are excellent. It's overall a sonic delight with all its different components.

Thank you ido. Yeah, the bass is still kind of weird sounding...this mix actually has a bass guitar versus the 1st one (since removed) where I tried my usual "maybe they won't notice it isn't a bass" routine. So, even though I tend to agree with you, you'll have to trust me that it was way more cloudy before. Anyway, I'm excited I finally got a bass guitar...it's a cheap one, but I love it. Gives me whole new range of sounds to work with. I will get better at messing around with the sound... i hope.

Cool! Great texture to this one. So many folks are making mixes sounding flat/2d. This one really has nice depth. Keep em coming!

Thank you beesee!! That is great to hear. I definitely want to steer clear of flat if at all possible.
Anyone know how to do 4d? Cause I am way interested...would the song have to have psychic powers or something?