bass rig (this is an electronics thread though)

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solaris0031

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ok so right now, my band is starting to get some gigs, and i cant continue borrowing amps. so i decided i should look into setting up a good amp for myself, and its just too damn expensive to get a head, but i dont want a combo.

i want to take some rack gear and a power amp and im thinking this would make a good head?

so far i have :
stereo compressor/gate (dbx266xl)
31 band active graphic eq (shure eq-27....shut up it was free and it works)
behringer virtualizer pro (cheap, and this is live so im not worried about it that much)

am i right in thinking i can buy a DI box to take my bass signal and convert it to line level so it will work with the rack gear, and then use a PA power amp at the end of the signal chain? i was looking at something likea nady XA-900 because its cheap and high wattage, but if there is something seriously wrong (or even a little bad) about this idea, please tell me.

for speakers i would either build a custom cabinet (two 10" and a 15") or borrow/buy a cabinet.

i want to be able to have a decent bass sound, and high wattage so i dont need to upgrade too soon. does the rack equipment i listed sound ok for my application? i know the nady power amp isnt a great PA amp, but will it be good enough for this? i play in a rock band, but my bass sound is sometimes funk slap bass, but other times i play rock-ish stuff with the tone down, so i do want to be able to get a rull range of sounds. im hoping the gear i listed will make a workable pre-amp section.

lastly, when buying speakers (and running the amp) do i want to go with 2 ohm, 4 ohm, or 8ohm? a buddy said something about 8ohm being better because of "faster response" but i honestly dont know that much about it.
 
Yeah, the avatar is good, relatively cheap stuff.

Do you have a vocalist? Will you be using a PA? Would plugging into that be an option? There are some nice DI boxes out there for relatively cheap.

tv
 
bah no i dont want to plug into the main pa. the whole idea here is to have a good sounding, cheap, high wattage head, that i can switch the rack gear in and out of as i please. does anybody have anything to say about the nady XA-900 power amp? thats a big part of this
 
It'll work. I'd get a preamp/DI like an ART tubeMP or tubemp studio (it has a limiter) with a line out, not a regular DI, as the mic level signal won't play very well with the line-level inputs of the EQ. It will be very noisy, most likely.
Skip the virtualizer, unless you want the effects.

The Nady will work OK, I don't know what those go for now. I'd probably look for a used QSC RMX 850 or get a Behringer EP1500 myself, if you can wait. The Behris go for under $300, and I've seen used RMX850 for $2-250.
 
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the reason for including the virtualizer is:

i already have it
i see no reason not to include it since its too noisy for my studio anyway
bass effects are fun

lol

as far as power amps, what differences do you get in power amps of same ratings that are different prices? what differences will you hear and or see between using the nady XA-900 and a QSC or berry of the same rating?


im looking at other DIs right now thanks for the advice :)
 
Hi Solaris,

Once, I tried to put together a live bass rig using studio grade components. I got a Rane parametric EQ to adjust the tone, and used a Rane DC24 for compression, and plugged those directly into a big power amp (a Crest), and pumped it all through a couple of JBL 15's. Much to my surprise, it sounded TERRIBLE! At least to my ears. Much, much too clean. It sounded like you plugged a bass direct into the soundboard and then cranked it to insanely loud levels. That sound might work for some people, especially those who play high end boutique basses, but it didn't sound anything at all like what a "bass amp" is supposed to sound.

What was missing was the distortion characteristics of a nice bass preamp. I now have a variety of bass preamps that I can use, and this yields a much more useful sound. I strongly recommend that, no matter what OTHER components you may settle on, you definitely need to consider using one of those preamps/DI's that are specifically designed for use on bass, The Sansamp Bass Driver DI is a great choice. MXR makes a similar device, although the model number escapes me right now. As usual, YMMV, and let your own ears be your guide.

Brad
 
Nice call, brad, I forgot about the Sansamp. An excellent choice.

Solaris,

I must admit to a little brand/price bias in re the Nady power amp. I recommended the QSC because it has a proven track record of reliability and performance at a fairly low price. The Behringer design is essentially an exact copy of the RMX series (surprise, surprise) using a less robust design. The Nady will probably be fine.
 
Sansamp/Tech21 rocks. The differences in amps of equal power ratings are numerous. %THD, Signal-Dampening, Cooling design, and efficiency are some common examples. Get some specs for various amps, and you'll see the pattern towards better specs in almost every fashion, in the higher priced amps. As far as ohm rating goes, just be sure speakers and amp match. Any difference in speed will be at the micro level. Even the difference between series and parallell, would not make difference at this level (These factors would only be noticeably detractive on large scale speaker sytems). For one of the best impedence tutoriuls go to http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/concepts/impedance.cfm

The rest of the tech section has some other good info (mostly unbiased but they still plug there products).
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/
 
yeah im starting to think i should just wait till i can get the QSC but im wondering this: i really really want to get the biggest i can right off, so my question is how much wattage is the most i would ever need for a 100 person gig running 2 large stage mains and maybe a sub? and whats the most wattage i could ever justify needing for 200 people or less, running for just my bass?
 
350 watts is about appropriate for that. You could get away with less, and of course 500 watts would definitely be acceptable, all depends on how loud the rest of the band is. Better to have too much power, than not enough though. Buy as much power as you can afford. Save up for a QSC or similar, and build bigger cabs.
 
Ok, I know this is about rack gear and all, but I've spent 8 years swapping out bass gear so I'll throw my 2 cents in. I started with a 300W SVT, it was too loud for most gigs so i went to a vintage tube 120W Ampeg V-4 amp with a 4x10. It could easily be heard over 2 Mesas with 4x12s. The amp didn't really distort much and its only $300 used for the bass or guitar version (both are pretty much the same except for reverb). I've tried the sans amp preamps: the pedal, the bass rack unit and the PSA-1, they were good but not as good as a real Ampeg. Right now I use an old 40W Ampeg B-15 and the guitarists in my band still use the Mesas. Most nights I can be heard well, though I'll admit some nights the amp breaks up a bit. For me its worth it for the amazing tone. But my point is, check out the V-4 before dropping a ton on preamps and power amps. $300 for a great bass and guitar amp is a good deal. An avatar cab on top of that would make a good starter setup, personally I like SWR cabs with ampeg but they are pricey.
 
Hi, First off..This can work. I worked with a friend of mine who, at the time had no gear. We threw together some stuff that we had like this and it actually sounded pretty good! An ART tube MP, dual 15 band EQ, Peavey csa800 pwr.amp, peavey 18" cab.,and a homemade 2-10 cab.
The tube pre definitely helped warm up the signal and provided plenty of boost to drive the EQ, and power amp. But, we had some of this and some was on permanent loan from friends. We didn't have to invest anything.
Plus with the components, their was more to break down. A bad patch cord one night, a bad tube the next. a loose connection here or there.
The point I'm trying to make is if you're going to invest hard earned $$$$ in this. Get exactly what you want from the start. Maybe go to a big music center in your area and see what you like for your style. A rack, or just a good head/cab? And work towards that.
 
I think you've got a good idea of putting together a custom rig setup of components-however if you are very limited to equipment you currently own and entry level gear, I don't think you'll get the sound you're looking for. Additionally a single 15" or two 10" won't get you through much of a loud mix. 4 10's would if the rig is setup properly.

Have you considered getting an affordable combo amp w/a 15" then add a power amp and additional cabinets w/10's or 15's? This way you get a combo amp for praticing that will sound great and work for small gig's and you are able to make the rig scaleable to gigs of different sizes and maintain the original tone throughout the chain.
 
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