Basic information about monitors

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Xipe

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I've tried to search for this answer, but there are literally thousands of post ... and those I checked didn't sufficiently answer my queries.

Anyways,

a) What are monitors? What's the difference between regular speakers?
b) do you use them in pairs? do you send them stereo or mono signals?
c) active, passive... what gives?

Sorry, I'm a total newbie... I gather that I need monitors if I am to continue to be serious with mixing my own music... but I don't know why, what they're for, how I use them (mono/stereo). etc...

I am thinking of buying PS8's sometimes in the future... right now I do everything on my computer through headphones... Will I need a pre-amp to drive the monitors? Will I need a mixer to distribute to them?

Sorry for the stupid questions...
 
Thanks!
Guess I'll be getting them monitors soon, as someone on that thread observed - mixing in headphones works very well... as long as you only listen to the music in headphones. Sounds awful when you get the music to a real system...
 
This idea, which I see in many threads, that monitors shouldn't sound good is a load of bullshit, probably pushed by manufacturers to compensate for the deficiencies in their designs!

My definition of most monitors: A mediocre set of speakers, designed solely to have a flat frequency response measured under obscure conditions, ignoring every other aspect of musical fidelity, and marketed under the false pretence that they are some sort of reference standard.

Flat frequency response is important, but it's far from everything. Many consumer speakers have flat frequency responses. In fact, I can go to Radio Shack right now, pick any old woofer and tweeter off the shelf, mount them in a cardboard box, and with a week or so of tweaking I can present you with a ruler flat measured response curve. Would you consider using these as your monitors?........ I didn't think so.

Frequency response is a time integrated measurement. It doesn't tell you anything about the dynamic characteristics of a speaker. The true question of fidelity (faithfulness) is how closely does the pressure wave in front of the speaker track the electrical waveform as you see it in a wave editor –

that is: amplitude versus TIME.

If this looks good then the frequency response will also look good. But the reverse argument cannot be made. Under this amplitude versus time scrutiny my cardboard speakers would look pretty damned horrible!

As a loudspeaker designer, I can tell many things about the performance of a particular speaker just by looking at it. The Event 20/20's and the Mackies, for example, will have significant time dependent midrange coloration due to the use of those 8 inch polypropylene midbass drivers crossed over at around 2 kHz. No serious high fidelity (remember this means faithfulness, not "good sounding") speaker uses 8 inch midbass drivers anymore. 6.5 inch is generally considered the maximum size for good midrange reproduction, and I personally would avoid polypropylene for anything larger than a 5 inch driver. It doesn't have the right stiffness and damping characteristics for larger drivers.

I'm not saying the Mackies and 20/20's are bad products. If fact, they might have very good price versus performance ratios. But just because they say "monitor" and have flat response curves doesn't mean they should be considered the final word. And there are many high fidelity speakers out there with extremely flat responses that also happen to sound extremely good.

barefoot
 
Oh my GOD! An intelligent post! Someone frame it!

(sorry guys.... just one of those days... no offense to anyone in particular... just when I started reading the post I was expecting crap and didn't get it... at least, I don't think I did - sorta made sense to me)
 
So Barefoot, if you were designing the perfect monitor what components and configuration would you use?

What in your opinion is the best "monitor" that is commercially available for the home recorder?
 
My dream "cost is no object" monitors:

tweeter – home made console to ceiling height, 1cm wide aluminum ribbon between 6,000 Guass neodymium magnets, non-compression loaded by a cast concrete 90 degree hyperbolic horn, covering the spectrum above 1kHz, and directly driven by a dedicated Pass Labs X600 mono block.

midbass - console to ceiling array of a dozen 6.5 inch Seas "Excel" magnesium cone drivers in critically damped sealed enclosures, non-compression loaded by a cast concrete 90 degree hyperbolic horn, covering the spectrum from 150Hz to 1kHz, and each driver driven by ½ of a Pass Labs X250 stereo amp.

Sub – 4 (per channel) North Leviathan 18 inch drivers in ported enclosures, covering the spectrum from 16Hz to 150Hz, and each driven a by dedicated Pass Labs X600 mono block.

Crossover - Rane RMP26i digital multi processor feeding into a home made buffer preamp to drive all of those amplifiers.

The tweeter and midbass horns would be flush mounted in a reflection free field in front of the console. The studio would need to be designed for subsonic reproduction.

The transparency, impact, and lack of dynamic compression would be such as the world has never heard. Estimated cost..... $200,000 USD. Of course, a year from now new components will come out and I'll have to completely rethink my system and double my budget!

This is just dreaming. I'll follow up with some suggestions on real monitors. :)

barefoot
 
It's not dB's I'm looking for with all those amps. It's damping.

Dynamic loudspeakers rely heavily on electrical damping from the current induced by the voice coil (or ribbon) moving in the magnetic gap. The more current the amplifier can source/sink the better behaved the speakers will be. When the speaker "overshoots" (does something different than the input signal) you can then think of it as a microphone. It's now creating an electrical signal. If the amp has a very low output impedence the mic(speaker) can very easily generate a lot of current. This current flowing in the magnetic field causes a force which is in opposition to the direction of the overshoot – i.e. a damping force.
 
Interesting barefoot, very true. Your ideal system sounds bit bit like those in some mastering labs, multiplied by about 4 :)
I'd like to hear what you consider to be good monitors, and why
 
barefoot,

does that mean that using an overpowered amp is a good idea? (provided, of course, you don't slide the faders all the way up :) )
 
Very good Idea to have extra power. Plus it means you don't need to push your amp as hard, so less distortion, less overheating less problems in general! Plus if you purchace new monitors, you have a hefty amp that migrates with you!
 
or, of cause, go for a much easier solutions, which is bi amped monitors
 
Cool. Thats what the Yorkville dude told me. Nice to know he wasn't just blowing smoke. I'm just paranoid about popping my monitors accidentally (YSM-1s are 70W, the CR-5 amp I have is 250 W per channel)

Is there some way to put a limiter in there? Does that defeat the purpose/screw up the sound?
 
yup one of the things a lot of people do is to put a fuse on the speaker input, rated just under the max voltage your speakers can take. In that case you'll blow a fuse, nothing else
 
While I am semi-competent at soldering and so forth, I completely forget all the math involved... if my speakers are rated at 70W per channel, what kinda fuse to I put inline? I would assume I would want a fast-blowing type, right?
 
Jezus! I used to know that stuff .......... did it plenty of time, and I can't seem to drag it out of my memory banks ------ I'll find someone who knows.......

sjoko (must'a'been'the'drugs'in'the'70's)
 
Cool. So, if I want to do it right, I'd put it across the hot (black) wire, right?
 
OK - here is the whole lot, I really forgot my stuff, so I had to ask someone who knows his stuff inside-out-and-upside down, and works as a designer for an audio products manufacturing firm. Here is his reply:

Actually the light bulb thing is a pretty good method, because
it responds quickly (i.e. the filament heats up as fast as, and
usually faster than, the driver coils) and is self-resetting.
Also if you mount the bulbs visibly you can get a neat-looking
display.

Because the impedance of real speakers is very complex, and
because manufacturer's stated impedance ratings are not meaningful
over the entire bandwidth, there really is no formula that can be
applied unless you have an actual vector impedance plot and do an
enormous amount of math...

Here's the best way. You will need:
1) a sample of the actual speaker you want to protect
2) the manufacturer's maximum power rating for the speaker
3) a pink noise source
4) a power amp
5) a true-RMS responding voltmeter
6) an assortment of light bulbs. Automotive light bulbs usually work well.

Then:
1) connect the power amp output so that you can momentarily feed the
speaker in series with a light bulb. Don't complete the connection yet.

2) adjust the RMS voltage of the pink noise signal (measured at the
power amp output) to the voltage that corresponds to the manufacturer's
rated maximum continuous power at the rated impedance. For example,
a speaker rated at 30 watts and 8 ohms works out to a little over 15
volts AC. Do this without the speaker connected.

3) pick a light bulb and use it to momentarily complete the connection
from the power amp to the speaker. Don't drive the speaker for more
than a couple of seconds. Start with a small bulb like a glove-box lamp
or similar.

4) experiment to find the size of bulb that starts to glow orange-ish
after 1 or 2 seconds. This will give the best protection while letting
short transients pass through undisturbed.

This probably isn't what you wanted to know, but it does actually work.
 
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