Basement studios, and blocking sound traveling through to/from the first level

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Bryan316

Bryan316

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I'm trying to clean up a basement band rehearsal room. Drywalled basement, carpeted, some absorbers on the walls, and I intend to build some bass traps for the room corners. But I think I want to spend some time planning a good method of keeping sound from blasting into the rest of the house, and from sound upstairs bleeding down here when recording quick tracks.

The floor joists are all exposed, and the ducting and pipes are all open. We don't want to drywall the ceiling because that encloses the electrical and plumbing and all that stuff. So my current idea is removable panels. Not a drop-suspension ceiling, but making big 4ftx4ft units with heavy hooks, and hanging them from the ceiling. If home improvements arise, unhook the units and move them away. Only permanent modification is the hooks.

If you wanted to build sound blocking panels, but make them removable, what ideas would you start with?

My intended start: 3/4" birch plywood, layer of mass loaded vinyl, Roxul and burlap, eye screws and hooks. Maybe instead of steel hooks, use some rubber or bungees for decoupling from the floor joists.
 
There are legit acoustic experts who wander in here sometimes, who can give you a much better answer than I can, but I think to make it at all effective, you're going to need a lot more mass than that. Of course, as the panels get heavier it's going to be a challenge (a) to create a hook system that's strong enough to hold them up and (b) just to put them up and take them down.

What you've described sounds about like a piano lid. Of course, a piano lid does noticeably attenuate the sound coming out, but it's a long way from stopping it.
 
If it was up to me, spray foam these joists shut, mass loaded vinyl, 5/8" firewall, green glue, vinyl, green glue and 5/8" firewall. But its not my home. I'm just trying to help the band be able to record, while the world still goes on upstairs.

So we're talking about minimally invasive, and effective enough. This will never be an isolated building away from traffic and sound pollution. But if we can get it good enough to satisfy our needs, we'll go to the professional recording studio when the REAL tracks need to be laid down.
 
It's really going to come down to how much soundproofing you desire and consider acceptable in both directions.

If NO sound should be allowed in or out...good luck. :)
 
No that's unreasonable to expect NO SOUND to transfer in an existing construction, without completely decoupled walls. Can't do that quite well with a 7 foot basement height. By the time I'm done trying that, only hobbits will fit into the room, certainly not a drumset with overhead mics when there's no overhead!

But the best I can expect to get from removable panels? That's all I'm looking for.
 
Again...it's all about what is acceptable to you.

I'm not sure removable panels will stop bleeding, but they may cut down on the blast.
Not sure if anyone here has actual data they can give you on something that is specific to your situation and building structure.

AFA having access too pipes and electrical wiring...like how often to you expect you will need to mess with that stuff in a typical house...???
Maybe have removable panels wherever is the main hub of pipes/electrical...and the rest, do a more permanent ceiling.
 
Any kind of industrial foam is a cheap fix
Click to expand...
For what? Foam does NOTHING for Transmission Loss.:rolleyes:

Your best bet is to add 2 layers of 5/8" drywall directly to the underside of the subfloor, caulking all joints. Then fill the joist cavities with Batt type insulation, OR, 3lb density rigid fiberglass, which is preferable for bass traps. 4" thick. Hold it in place with plastic strip made for this. Now you can make modular frames covered with fabric, and hang them as you wish.

However, transmission loss is only as good as the weakest link. If you have HVAC ducts common to the upstairs and basement, well, you might as well forget it or modify as needed.
 
that spray foam is a crock... Expensive and not effective at all. Soundproofing the right way is HUGELY expensive and you can blow the whole project if it's not engineered and implemented perfectly. It costs thousands to do it right, and it's easy to screw up. I investigated for a long time and determined it was a lot easier to work out times when the noise bleeding upstairs was acceptable, and times when everyone upstairs could STFU while I'm tracking :D
 
suprstar said:
that spray foam is a crock... Expensive and not effective at all. Soundproofing the right way is HUGELY expensive and you can blow the whole project if it's not engineered and implemented perfectly. It costs thousands to do it right, and it's easy to screw up. I investigated for a long time and determined it was a lot easier to work out times when the noise bleeding upstairs was acceptable, and times when everyone upstairs could STFU while I'm tracking :D
Click to expand...

Truth.

We'll do enough to help out the room reverberation and add bass traps, do heavy work around his computer station, and make the isolation booth more isolated with green glue and 5/8" fireboard. After that, everyone upstairs SHADDAP for the next two hours!
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
For what? Foam does NOTHING for Transmission Loss.:rolleyes:

Your best bet is to add 2 layers of 5/8" drywall directly to the underside of the subfloor, caulking all joints. Then fill the joist cavities with Batt type insulation, OR, 3lb density rigid fiberglass, which is preferable for bass traps. 4" thick. Hold it in place with plastic strip made for this. Now you can make modular frames covered with fabric, and hang them as you wish.

However, transmission loss is only as good as the weakest link. If you have HVAC ducts common to the upstairs and basement, well, you might as well forget it or modify as needed.
Click to expand...

This sounds great! I never thought of this... damn. So you're saying actually put the drywall inbetween the floor joists right under the subfloor and THEN use 703 in 4" or reguilar R batts between the joists with the plastic strips holding them up, then what about the remaining space to the bottom of the joist. is that what you meant to make frames and more 703 wrapped in fabric? I think my basement joists are 8" total. Sounds like a great idea to me, glad I found that info before starting on my control room. I just need clarification on that remaining space and what you meant by "modular frames covered in fabric"... were you speaking beneath the joists? Cause if I could make my ceiling stop level with the floor joists that would so great to gain that height! Does any of what I speak make sense?
 
The hard part about putting drywall against the subflooring, is random nails sticking down, keeping you from putting drywall flat against the subfloor slats. This means LOTS of prep work clearing out nail points sticking everywhere. But once you've done that, you'll NEVER regret it and go back to remove all that drywall.

I'll be talking to the "property owner" about taking nibblers and dikes and an angle grinder, to flatten all his nails, then two buckets of green glue and TONS of cut up strips of drywall.


If only I could get paid to do this for a living....
 
Yeah we did that already. Cleared all the random nails that were hanging down for the small live room. We did that room a little different but it's hard to get my Step Father to go along with anything. I'd love to do this method for the control room though to gain headspace and have the acoustic panels and basstraps built into the floor joists. Such an ingenious idea. I wish someone had a sketchup drawing of this... ???
 
Here comes one of Bryan's terrible ideas, brace yourselves.... put the rigid fiberglass between the joists and just staple burlap right to the joists? So you'd have a double layer of 5/8" drywall glued and sealed to the subfloor between every joist, then fiberglass, then burlap stapled up?

Would be quite permanent, and your whole ceiling will be burlap everywhere. But you could try to make it look snazzy and get some wood trim, and nail them up over the burlap to hide seams and staples. Would kinda make the whole ceiling look like a Japanese temple or something, heh heh...
 
What do you think would be better between the 8" joists of the subfloor for isolation from the basement control room.

(In joist) 3/4 OSB>3/4 OSB> R Batt> (joist ends) 3/4 Drywall> 3/4 Drywall

Or

(In joist) 3/4 OSB> 3/4 drywall >3/4 drywall > 6" 703 rigid fiberglass (joist ends) (that almost totals 8")


The top loses headroom and the bottom has built in bass traps saving head room. OSB because it seems to be the cheapest.

Bryan, you mentioned glueing. I cant afford green glue.

Ritz or anyone with good knowledge please chime in!
 
Sorry I didn't catch this thread earlier... I've been very busy.

Rick was suggesting the added mass of type 'X' gypsum board. Usually this is the 'fire-rated' stuff. It is denser and heavier than 'normal' gypsum board or drywall - whatever you want to call it. ;) For a single mass partition, doubling the mass increases the sound transmission loss by 3db.. every time you double the mass. This technique still leaves you with a single partition. ~STC40 If you were to make a double partition (decoupled), you would need to also add two layers of 5/8" type "x' to the bottom of the joists, decoupled with isolation clips or similar. ~STC60 or so... BUT the problem is, you don't have enough room for that. Therefore, it was recommended to only do the mass addition below the sub floor and use the rest of the joist space for ceiling absorption - which is highly recommended due to the low ceiling height. I hope you understand.

Cheers,
John
 
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Here is a good place to reference regarding studio design & construction; tons of information.

Acoustics
 
jhbrandt said:
Sorry I didn't catch this thread earlier... I've been very busy.

Rick was suggesting the added mass of type 'X' gypsum board. Usually this is the 'fire-rated' stuff. It is denser and heavier than 'normal' gypsum board or drywall - whatever you want to call it. ;) For a single mass partition, doubling the mass increases the sound transmission loss by 3db.. every time you double the mass. This technique still leaves you with a single partition. ~STC40 If you were to make a double partition (decoupled), you would need to also add two layers of 5/8" type "x' to the bottom of the joists, decoupled with isolation clips or similar. ~STC60 or so... BUT the problem is, you don't have enough room for that. Therefore, it was recommended to only do the mass addition below the sub floor and use the rest of the joist space for ceiling absorption - which is highly recommended due to the low ceiling height. I hope you understand.

Cheers,
John
Click to expand...

I very much understood all of that John. And I thank you sooooooo much. I've been here and reading all the materials for years. That helps me alot. So basically, 5/8in fire rated gypsum board below subfloor would be best and then bass trapping with the best material I can afford. Sounds great! Thanks so much!
 
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