Bands, Drummers & Click Tracks

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soulfulvirtuoso

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We all know that one of the norms in recording these days is implemented with the use of click tracks / drum loops (especially for commercial music) for steady tempo and rhythm.

But i was just wondering how far would you go with it as an audio engineer and/or as a musician. I mean, as far as the type of recording goes, who would prefer what, where and when? I've always multi-tracked band recordings with the implication of the "click" in it. They're all straight beats anyway so i'm not just having any worries yet. I'd be very challenged to do songs with odd meters and tempo changes.

On the other hand, i haven't had the chance to do it on a Live-studio-recording situation yet. What would you normally do here by the way? To click or not to click?

In some thoughts, i was also wondering how did those great cats like Jeff Porcaro, Steve Gadd and Hal Blaine do it on their time. I've heard they had seldom used clicks on their recording sessions. They're incredible groovemasters with such steady tempos- no questions asked - but how did the recording generally took place in the process?



I'm just looking for some enlightenment. :)

Cheers!
 
in the same vein as this topic...does anybody know where to get a program that easily allows oneself to program a click track with differing tempos/signatures that can be imported into your DAW as a .wav or similar audio file? and preferably something free...if it exists
 
i was also thinking the same thing "what if theres a tempo or time signature change within the song". after reading and viewing cubase tutorials you can learn how to insert a different time signature anywhere in the song, I havent personally bothered to learn this yet.

When i come to record my band (when we have sorted out some songs, and aquired some more musicians lol) i think i will opt for the non click at first. and im my opinion if a band is is going to put a drastic time sig change into the arrangement, than they "should" have more of an idea about keeping a tight steady beat together (to some degree of course)

also in your reference to the musicians you listed, again in my opinion they may of used a click (why not if the song doesnt change none). than again as you said they are incredible musicians who would probably not even need a click.

to sum up what ive said, I think that a band that is not so tight should use a click, and if there are songs with time sig changes etc, I would personally leave the click out

I hope that I may of shed some light on this topic in one way or another


-dave :cool:
 
With cubase, nuendo, protools and I'm sure most other DAWs have some facility for doing that.

I do all kind of tempo changes and time signature changes to the click, it just takes practice.
 
There's some threads going around right now at the SONAR forum and on the PSW forum, about drummers and click tracks... what's with all this "click track" thing anyway? I've gone years without the subject coming up and now click track threads are everywhere! Is it a sign of the coming apocalypse?
 
j-boy said:
There's some threads going around right now at the SONAR forum and on the PSW forum, about drummers and click tracks... what's with all this "click track" thing anyway? I've gone years without the subject coming up and now click track threads are everywhere! Is it a sign of the coming apocalypse?
Click to expand...
NO, it's just a sign that everyone wants to get professional results
 
Farview said:
NO, it's just a sign that everyone wants to get professional results
Click to expand...

And by professional, you mean "drumagogged," right? :p :D
 
scrubs said:
And by professional, you mean "drumagogged," right? :p :D
Click to expand...
No, I mean in time. You know, at the tempo you meant it to be.

Drumagog has nothing to do with timing or tempo. It only replaces sounds. If you record the sounds you need, you don't even need Drumagog.
 
after reading and viewing cubase tutorials you can learn how to insert a different time signature anywhere in the song
Click to expand...

i guess i should stop being so lazy, and do the tutorials then...
 
99% of the bands and people i record work in random tempo and time changes, a click track would be an absolute disaster.
 
treymonfauntre said:
99% of the bands and people i record work in random tempo and time changes, a click track would be an absolute disaster.
Click to expand...
Random? Are they making it up as they go along? If they play the song the same way every time, it isn't random. It's a pain in the ass, but you can map it out.

Most of the time progressive music doesn't have a lot of actual tempo shifts. There is a lot of half time, double time, straight time and time signature changes that make it seem like the tempo changes when it doesn't.

For example: going from 4/4 to 6/8, you would give the drummer an 1/8 note click. He can shift freely between the two time signatures and it seems as if the tempo changes. It doesn't.
 
I'm only really used to using Cubase, but it's bloody easy to set tempo changes, and not too difficult to do time signatures either - I recorded a song in 4/4 with an outro that switched between 6/8 and 7/8 every bar, wasn't too much of a headache.

However, I'm not sure everything has to be done to click - RX Bandits and Iron Maiden are two bands I know of who record everything live without click, and they're solid as bedrock.
 
Personally, I don't use click tracks. I'm perfectly happy with tunes that breath a little. If a drummer is all over the place, all the click tracks in the world won't help.
 
I noticed the other day while skimming through some pro studio sites that they have "studio prep" pages and that many of them discuss the importance of the "click". Some even insist on it's use. I've found it to be helpful on straight foward stuff but I can see the difficulty in tempo changes. Especially as alot of tempo changes rely on a "human error" intro in to the change. I have "click" on my pro-tools rig but haven't messed with tempos. I'll have to goof around and learn the keystrokes. Good topic!
 
If a drummer can't play to a click, he has no business playing songs with "tempo changes". That's like learning to run before you can crawl. A good drummer can play to a click. And by click, I mean it could be a straight drum machine beat. If a drummer can't follow that when it's loud enough in his headphones, he's got problems...Big problems.
And don'y give me this "random" crap. That's like saying a guitar is never out of tune. It's just "random tuning".
 
How about "it depends."

Some songs just don't really work with a click track, even with a good drummer, especially songs with a lot of tempo changes. Others just work better with it, even ignoring the convenience of having measures line up in the DAW.
 
ez_willis said:
The foundation of any good modern song is a steady tempo, IMO.
Click to expand...

true. which is why modern songs kinda blow. :D

sturdy-looking houses with nothing in em.

Mike
 
I think the click track for most things takes away from the ebb & flow of a song. Even the best drummers naturally sway from the tempo a little, and that's a good thing...It helps the song sound more natural, and less programmed...Music is all about feeling, and click tracks suck the feeling out of songs IMO....that is all.
 
A good drummer can sway a bit WITHIN the tempo. If a drummer can't play with a click and maintain his "feel", then he just hasn't practiced with a metronome enough. I guarantee you that most drummers that claim playing with a click doesn't feel right have probably only tried it a few times before giving up. Like anything else, it takes practice...lots of practice.
 
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