Bad Practice

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bluewildangel

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Hi guys, tonight my band(2 guitars, bass and drums) tried to do some recording with my PC.. Cakewalk(going to that category in a sec) Sonar to be exact and had a hard time getting things synched up for the parts?! It a real steady punk rockish tune were were trying to track and just had a bad time figuring out the right thing to listen to while playing your part and who first etc.. We tried drums first then the lead guitarist wanted to track his part I guess.. I wanted to do drums bass guitars vocs. ANyone have nay input? This was a very straining experience and I would Love for some advice.. not necessarily a solution.. BTW, we were using a set of sony headphones on the drummer and guitarist while they wre either listening to a refference track we had just recorded.. Anyone? Thanks in advance! Please?! :)
Ben
 
Suggestions:

Practice... and get in the habit of recording all the time. Sounds like you guys were a bit nervous. My brother records EVERY practice. When he started doing it, it made people nervous. Now it is second nature.

Get a card that can handle more inputs. Record everyone at once, then when you get a good solid rhythm track, do overdubs for the vocals and maybe the leads.

Think about using a click track. If you can get used to playing to a click track, overdubs might come easier.

Queue
 
Yeah, thanks.. R/O

After a few more hours of reading here, I've gathered quite a bit.. A question or two still looms.. What we were was listening to the click track, or in our case tonight a reference track we All had recorded live with 1 mic. That reference tracks tempo most likely varied a tad, so when drummer or guitarist was playing listening through headphones, it may have been tough to keep synch.. I didn't try to track my part yet(rhythm guitar) which makes perfect sense now! I need to try to track since I know my part and the song pretty well.., I was just figuring on it being alot easier.. Not planning on the human variables I guess.. I think alot of it was the lead guitarist being in a mood or something too.. Damn guitarists! I saw that starting with the drums may not be a bad idea.. Drummer didn't play to a click because guitarist said he wouldn't be able to do it(feel and know the song).. I thought maybe drums and bass together but then we didn't try that either.. When the guitarist was tracking, he said he couldn't hear was was coming out of the headphones either.. I couldn't get anymore volume out of them(sony mdr-cd180) ANy recommendations on that one? A more pure tone track like a click? We're gonna work on it tomorrow.. I was just trying to get across it's gonna take time.. Rome wasn't built in a day.. You have to have patience.. he does not. We like need an engineer or a produce and set him straight! :) Any volunteers? I'd love to send someone and mp3 and see what you think.. The live mix that is.. the only real clean tracks I have so far is a fairly good drum track, and almost complete second take on drums, and a decent guitar track.. BTW, this board is great and I am a have become a better man in the last few hours delving into some of the topics(rants, raves, right-ons). Alot of great ideas flying around in here.. Musicians should/could rule the world! Thanks for having me!
Ben
 
Suggestion.........
1; Use a metronome with a "headphone out" socket, get your drummer to use it religiously even when recording the guide track, if your bass player is anywhere near competent he can sit in the drummers groove without phones, then.......
2; Put your rhythm track down, using the phones to hear the earlier recorded drum/bass tracks.........
3; Vocals
4; Lead guitar (check out for yourself how loud the headphones can go.........maybe the lead guy is deaf OR just plays too bloody loud:D )

ChrisO :cool:
 
I know vegas 2.0 has a metronome built in. im sure sonar must have one built in.
 
yeah it does...

We got a little further today.. Thanks for everyones help.. And yes Sonar has a metronome which the drummer has trouble hearing an or following when he is playing loudly.. I think he is rushing a little too. Actually he'd get behind a hair then overcompensate i guess.. He also dosen't seem to know the changes very well.. I guess when we play all together as a bad he can get away with it because everyone else is makin some noise so he's covered up a bit.. I'm thinking the click track needs to be louder.. the headphone output on my SB live platinum is what I'm feeding to him from.. What is happening too is I've got the mixer plugged into the 1/4 mic input on the front panel of my card. So whatever the drummer is playing(which we are trying to record) is Also coming throught the headohones.. I can't seem to find a way to Only get the click track in his ears from the PC.. And when the guitarist is trying to track, yes he complains that what he is hearing in the headphones is not loud enough and Yes he IS playing too bloody loud! Nothing can convince him otherwise! What do i do??!! lol I'll say it again, "Damn Guitarists" So basically what we did today was Me play the rhythm guitar part to a click since I felt I had pretty good timing and could pretty much follow the click.. i did rush a time or 2 but didn't lose any beats.. The drummer was then trying to lay his track down with that both listenin to what I recorded alone, along with click, and with both the click and what I recorded and we jsut couldn't make it sound right.. Something would sound off, then it might get back anbd be ok for a few measures.. it was weird. i listened to the guitar track alone and it sounded in time as well as the drum part alone. Put em together and we had a trainwreck in some spots. i dunno.. ANyone? Sorry for the long winded posts as well.. i want to explain thoroughly so people can answer.. MAybe someday I'll get to help someone on this BBS :)
Ben <-- the most reasonable guitarist i know.. :)
 
Ben,
I guess my point was for your drummer to get himself a "stand alone" metronome all to himself that he can use when he practices as well as when he is playing live or in the studio. If he does this AND actually uses it his timing will improve.

Tell your guitarist he's a dickhead. (From someone who's been playing for a loooonnnngggggg time)

:cool: :cool:
 
getting just the click track to come through, and not what is being recorded....

Double click on the yellow speaker by the clock When the box comes up, go to the options menu....That will open another box with two options...playback and record.

choose play back and mute the channel that the drums are coming into (i guess mic?) btw if you're recording from a mixer, use line.

Now go into that playback/recording box again and place a check (select) the source you want to record...(mic if that's what you're using)

This SHOULD work, but it might take out the metronome, if you're not routing it correctly. I think it can also depend on the source you're using for the click track. This is how I used to record before I got my digi 001 (sblive) when you come to overdubs, you can run into latency unless you have a decent mixer....If you need help with that let me know.
 
Ok cool..

I didn't think of muting the playback for the Line/Mic2 in the windows control panel. I figured this would mute what is coming into that and not record it.. I guess as long as the recording option is set at the Line/Mic2(which btw is a 1/4' input that panned all the way to the left clicks and it acts as Line In, and to the right past the click acts as a Mic input with the gain control). I have been using that input on the Mic feature not Line coming from a Peavy 1601 stereo 16track using the "Mon. A" output(the board says that those outputs are "unbalanced btw.".. I have those outputs on mixer as well as "Main A and B" and another set of "Mon A and B" on the AUX buss I guess.. Can take a digital pic qucik if anyone so desired.. But anyhow, to recap, running that "Unbalanced Mon A" output into the front of my soundcard on the Line/Mic2 jack using the Mic side with the gain about half... you saying I should switch it over to a Line input? From my experiece, that really quiets that input so not a whole lotta signal comes through.. I'll try the muting thing now.. And i would experiment with the outputs on the Mixer into my sc but I'm afraid of voltage mismatches and whatnot(where's that thread again..) Oh, btw, the metronome in Sonar is MIDI so unless I mute that as well, it should be heard.. Here we go again!! Wheeeeeeee! Thanks for your help guys! This is fun! What I would be doing without this board...
1. Ripping what hair i have left out..
2. Killing my bandmates...
3. Destroying my comp and all equipment(harsh)
So honestly, A Big thank you goes out on this one..
Ben
Pic is attached..
 

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ok I forgot that you have the sblive with the live drive in the front. Thats a whole different story. The reason I suggested to use the line input is because you mixer should be sending a line signal, and usually you wouldn't want to add another mic pre in the chain (especially an sbllive one) Can you post a picture of the mixer itselff with faders and such? The signal should come out just fine using the line imput. If you go into that recording control panel you can turn it up in there and you'll get more volume that way..

In the end if it works and it sounds good, then it's fine. It SHOULD sound better w/ line if you get it worked out but then again I don't have the live drive either.

Are you recording the drums stereo or mono?
 
Yeah, I'll take a pic of the mixer tonight.. i tried switching the live drive input to Line and it worked fine although it only sent to one side of the headphones, when its on the Mic side, you hear it through both cans.. Coming out of the mixer, we only have one line so I'd assume exerything we are recording is technically mono. however, when the tracks are recorded and played back, the signal is coming from both speakers.. And if i Do mute the Playback level for the Line/Mic2 in, it dosen't come through(MIDI Click track still does :) ) I think yesterday we did a pretty good job. The guitarist ended up laying down his rhythm track to a click. Then drummer to that, vocals then bass.. We all kept time pretty well, there are a couple spots that sound a little sloppy.. It's a very fast song(187 tempo).. At least we have a few tracks that Almost fit together.. Everyone will take a few more takes and see if we can get it perfect.. Anyway to record at a slower tempo and speed it up? I saw the time stretch plugin.. I guess that would work. i'll post a pic of the top of the mixer when I get home from work.. Tanks guys..
Ben
 
you can try recording slower and then speeding it up, it will work but sometimes you lose sound quality that way depending on how much you change it.

If you mixer has stereo sends, you can plug it into the back line in of your sound card which is a stereo mini jack. You might have to buy some adapters to make it work, but then you can record a stereo image of your drums (ie: pan overheads and toms) It usually helps a bit.

Or if you don't care about stereo drums, you can pan the drums all full to one side, and pan the guitar to the right, and on the first track choose to record just left, 2nd track record just right..(cool edit pro has that function I'm sure sonar does) Then 2 instruments can play and record at the same time without mixing the tracks.

Just some ideas.
 
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