B1 or C1 - Difference in cost = better quality/sound?

Well, DJL, if I were to draw Dot's graph, with 2 perpendicular axes- Bright vs. dark, and colored vs transparent, I would put the B-1 somewhere on the bright transparent side, the V67 on the dark colored side, the MK319 on the dark transparent side. Shoeps CM6 would be wicked transparent, and neutral on the bright-dark axis. C12 is colored and bright. To me, a "neutral" mic is one that hangs out in the center of the graph. Neither bright nor dark particularly, it has enough color to not be a measurement mic. By that standard, an Earthworks is not a neutral mic because it is too transparent. Workhorse mics live near the center of the graph, and the ones out at the end of any given axis are usually cool specialty mics, when applied to the right source.-Richie
 
DJL - I'm sure we can all agree this meets the criterion of a neutral mic. (DPA 4012)
 

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KRS- you've got me drooling. I've got a bunch of tracks that were done with DPA's, a mic I've never gotten my grubby hands on. That's how-you-say- ruler flat, with excellent off axis response. On the other hand, there are vocalists who really like that 7K boost on the SM57. I'm not really one of them. To me, "neutral" and "flat" are really two different things. Whatever terminology you use, the DPA's are world class mics, not just because of remarkable frequency response, but also the detailed reproduction of the quality of that sound. Hell, a Behringer ECM 8000 has nearly ruler flat response, but it won't be mistaken for a Schoeps or Earthworks or DPA anytime soon.-Richie
 
I used to use a DPA 4011 to record my cello. Have never found a better sound. Shockingly vivid. I've heard since then that that the 4011 is Yo Yo Ma's main mic (love to have that confirmed).

I've just got a tip off on a mic that doesn't seem to get much airtime - MBHO. They're German, they're cheap, and they're said to be in the same league as Schoeps and Neumann. Anyone used these? (I will try to demo a pair of the SDC's over Christmas).
 
Richard Monroe said:
Well, DJL, if I were to draw Dot's graph, with 2 perpendicular axes- Bright vs. dark, and colored vs transparent, I would put the B-1 somewhere on the bright transparent side, the V67 on the dark colored side, the MK319 on the dark transparent side. Shoeps CM6 would be wicked transparent, and neutral on the bright-dark axis. C12 is colored and bright. To me, a "neutral" mic is one that hangs out in the center of the graph. Neither bright nor dark particularly, it has enough color to not be a measurement mic. By that standard, an Earthworks is not a neutral mic because it is too transparent. Workhorse mics live near the center of the graph, and the ones out at the end of any given axis are usually cool specialty mics, when applied to the right source.-Richie
Click to expand...
In your opinion... which mic is more fairly neutral, the MC319, V67, or B1?

Also, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying correctly.

Quote... "To me, "neutral" and "flat" are really two different things."

Do you mean like the following?

Neutral = Colored vs Transparent

Flat = Bright vs. Dark

Is that what you mean?

Oh, and in your opinion... which mic is more fairly flat, the MC319, V67, or B1?

Thanks,
Don
 
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Richard Monroe said:
Hell, a Behringer ECM 8000 has nearly ruler flat response, but it won't be mistaken for a Schoeps or Earthworks or DPA anytime soon.-Richie
Click to expand...

Yeah Richie and it's a damn shame the mic is so noisy, otherwise it would have been a great mic for less than $50.
 
I have the C-1 and agree with the comments that this mic is best suited for vocals, more specifically darker voices. I also agree that due to the boost to mid-upper range frequency that semblance (S's) can be an issue but I have found that using the pop shield and not crowding the mic eliminates the need for a de-sesser while providing an airy sound to vocals. The C-1 has a different character than the Beyerdynamic M500 Ribbon Mic I have and to my ears produces a clearer, more airy vocal on darker voices. I really like this mic!
 
krs said:
I've just got a tip off on a mic that doesn't seem to get much airtime - MBHO. They're German, they're cheap, and they're said to be in the same league as Schoeps and Neumann. Anyone used these? (I will try to demo a pair of the SDC's over Christmas).
Click to expand...

I've used some MBHO mics and they are definitely not in the same league as Schoeps. Actually, Neumann's not even in the same league as Schoeps.

I haven't heard any MBHO mics that make them more attractive than some of the other offerings in the same price range. There's a perfectly good reason why MBHO "doesn't seem to get much airtime".
 
Dot said:
I've used some MBHO mics and they are definitely not in the same league as Schoeps. Actually, Neumann's not even in the same league as Schoeps.

I haven't heard any MBHO mics that make them more attractive than some of the other offerings in the same price range. There's a perfectly good reason why MBHO "doesn't seem to get much airtime".
Click to expand...

Care to elaborate?

Word on the street is they are COOL and really good value.
 
krs said:
Care to elaborate?

Word on the street is they are COOL and really good value.
Click to expand...

What word on what street? Honestly, where are you hearing this, krs? Check around and do some searches on all the forums. You'll hardly ever see anyone posting about or recommending MBHO mics.

Cream rises to the top - and people do hear about the good stuff. Word does get around. There's a reason nobody's talking about MBHO mics. They're nothing to write home about.
 
MBHO has a marketing problem. For example - you'll notice (for whatever reason) they don't appear on the Listening Sessions - funny how all the stuff there gets talked about all the time. (which came first...? :cool: )

I'll be shooting these out with some bigger league stuff over the holidays. I'm sure some acoustic purists will enjoy having another affordable mic option without the ever popular weird high end (which I suspect these won't have...we'll see).
 
krs said:
MBHO has a marketing problem. For example - you'll notice (for whatever reason) they don't appear on the Listening Sessions - funny how all the stuff there gets talked about all the time. (which came first...? :cool: ).
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MBHO is represented. http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/mics.htm

I'll be shooting these out with some bigger league stuff over the holidays. I'm sure some acoustic purists will enjoy having another affordable mic option without the ever popular weird high end (which I suspect these won't have...we'll see).
Click to expand...

You're making a lot of assumptions, krs. We've been testing out a few small condenser mics - and believe me, if MBHO was anything worth talking about - we'd definitely let people know. There are affordable options for acoustic purists, but MBHO ain't on the list.
 
My mistake! I'll give them a listen pronto.

On which session is it used? Can seem to find it - nice pic btw. I'll take one of each please :)
 
Richard,

DJL said:
In your opinion... which mic is more fairly neutral, the MC319, V67, or B1?

Also, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying correctly.

Quote... "To me, "neutral" and "flat" are really two different things."

Do you mean like the following?

Neutral = Colored vs Transparent

Flat = Bright vs. Dark

Is that what you mean?

Oh, and in your opinion... which mic is more fairly flat, the MC319, V67, or B1?

Thanks,
Don
Click to expand...
... Bump ...
 
Well, DJL, I think of the three mics that you name, the B-1 is closest to neutral. Let me expand on that by saying that the V67 is on the colored and dark side of the graph. The MK319 varies *a lot*, but the one I have is darker than either of the others, with less color than the V67, and the B-1 is on the bright side, without a lot of color. Note that I have heard at least one MK319 that is a lot brighter and a lot more colored than mine, almost coming across like a U87. I haven't listened to enough B-1's or enough V67's to know if their frequency curve or distortion varies as much as the Oktava. My impressions are based on single examples, and the V67 is an older V67B.
In the real world, I have found the B-1 useful for tracking acoustic guitar and woodwinds, including oboe and bassoon. It has never come out as a top vocal mic selection. The V67 has found uses almost exclusively on male vocalists with higher thinner voices (think Neil Young). The MK319 has found lots of use on female backing vocals, especially Mezzos and sopranos with piercing voices requiring some taming. It has never come out as a good instrument mic, although it's pretty good on big floor toms. Note that every one of those mics is something I put up when the mic I'd rather be using is already on something else. Most of the time, for the B-1, I'd rather use a C414, for the Oktava, I'd rather use a modded AKG Solid Tube, and for the V67 I'd rather use a B.L.U.E. Baby Bottle.-Richie
 
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