Axe vs. Monitors

[fritsthegirl]

I've got a decent acoustic guitar, pretty OK mic, and say £300 burning in my pocket. I like my guitar, its my favourite instrument, but it's semi-acoustic. I'd love to have an electric to get a more smooth, drawn out, mellow sound. Equally, I'd like to get better at recording and think my speakers are a bit retarded (heresay) and not reflecting what they should be.

My question is what would choose? Would you spend the money on an axe and amp, or would you rather spend the money to get some decent monitors? I know they're a spoilt & rich woman's problems so I feel pretty embarrassed to mention it, but figure I'm not alone in my Western shame.

 

[Steenamaroo]

First thing's first - What exactly have you got?

 

[fritsthegirl]

First thing's first - What exactly have you got?

I've got speaker wise; Sony model...SS-8SE, made in the UK. Then a Behringer USB interface, mic AT4033, really old cambridge amp, some sennheiser cans, IBM think pad laptop (should probably upgrade this and all), Tanglewood acoustic.

Hope that's what you meant, cos I got attitude and dimples as well...

 

[WhiteStrat]

No, you're not alone in your Western shame.

Over the past 10 years I've had one set of monitors--and thought they were fine. In that time, I've spent bajillions on everything else--including lots of amps and guitar fx gadgets. Just last week I bought better monitors.

OOPS!

I should have done that first. I still would have wanted all the other crap I bought, but I would've heard it better. A lot depends on whether you're a player first, or a recordist first. I was more of a player then, but I'm more of a recordist now, so I guess that makes a difference.

As Steen said though, "What have you got?" Your monitors might not be that far off, and as such, you might get more growth in your sound by expanding your guitar arsenal.

 

[superelixir]

It might be easier to find good monitors for that price. You could get a decent used guitar, or a decent used solid state amp (or really small tube amp), but BOTH would probably cost more...

 

[fritsthegirl]

It might be easier to find good monitors for that price. You could get a decent used guitar, or a decent used solid state amp (or really small tube amp), but BOTH would probably cost more...

Aye, it's a hard call. A guitar's sound is so important and I wouldn't want to cheap out on sound quality there. I'm sure the same can be said for monitors. I think I understand the good sound of a guitar, but not so much monitors. I'd love to get some recommendations on monitors in the £100 price bracket. If I can squeeze the purse strings I might get all of it, even if it means I eat noodles for a month or 12.

 

[fritsthegirl]

No, you're not alone in your Western shame.

What's a girl to do but write a song about the injustice of the world economy? I am just a beginner in this recording thing, and so maybe exploring sounds (new guitar) is far more important. But I thought I'd check on here and see what your experiences have been with stuff like this. Perhaps there's an order. New guitar & amp to play with, then monitors before anything else.

 

[WhiteStrat]

What's a girl to do but write a song about the injustice of the world economy? I am just a beginner in this recording thing, and so maybe exploring sounds (new guitar) is far more important. But I thought I'd check on here and see what your experiences have been with stuff like this. Perhaps there's an order. New guitar & amp to play with, then monitors before anything else.

It's all subjective--but that would be the order for me. I was a guitarist first, and until I was in love with my own sound, I wasn't serious about recording it!

 

[fritsthegirl]

It's all subjective--but that would be the order for me. I was a guitarist first, and until I was in love with my own sound, I wasn't serious about recording it!

Fair dos. I think I might be the same and would love to tinkle with a new guitar and sound - probably many more hours of entertainment there as well, value for money and all that. It would be nice to have a set of new speakers, but it is probably unfair to blame my ageing Sony's (but made in the UK) for my lack of ear appreciation as far as mixing goes.

 

[grimtraveller]

I'd love to get some recommendations on monitors in the £100 price bracket.

Back in 2010, not knowing anything about monitors other than it was better to have a set than to continue on my stereo speakers, I bought these Seiwin speakers from a shop called Studiospares. They used to be based up in Camden Town but they moved to just before Brent Cross, right on the North circular road.
I think they're pretty good for the price. They are definitely less enhanced than my stereo speakers. When you think you can barely hear the bass, then you play the same material on regular speakers, then boof ! The bass is there alright !
Studiospares make the Seiwins themselves and they are powered monitors so you don't need an amp to power them.

 

[fritsthegirl]

Back in 2010, not knowing anything about monitors other than it was better to have a set than to continue on my stereo speakers, I bought these Seiwin speakers from a shop called Studiospares. They used to be based up in Camden Town but they moved to just before Brent Cross, right on the North circular road.
I think they're pretty good for the price. They are definitely less enhanced than my stereo speakers. When you think you can barely hear the bass, then you play the same material on regular speakers, then boof ! The bass is there alright !
Studiospares make the Seiwins themselves and they are powered monitors so you don't need an amp to power them.

Scheisse, Brent Cross you say...not too far from my neck of the woods, might go check it out. So tell this NOOB what is the differntio between speakers and monitors?

 

[WhiteStrat]

Scheisse, Brent Cross you say...not too far from my neck of the woods, might go check it out. So tell this NOOB what is the differntio between speakers and monitors?

That question wasn't directed at me, but I'll take a stab nonetheless:

Speakers are designed to flatter the music; monitors are designed to reveal the music.

Consumer speakers generally have some built in EQ--a design algorithm that tweaks the music before it hits your ears. Usually there's some bass emphasis as well as some additional high end sheen. In other words, they're a bit scooped (in some cases, a LOT scooped)--in the context of graphic EQ, it's known as the smiley face.

When you mix on these "consumer" speakers that distort the reality of your sound, you further distort that reality by compensating (even subconsciously) for the altered sound that you hear.

Conversely, the point of a good studio monitor is to be as "flat" as possible, and not exaggerate anything in your mix. The goal here is that when you get your mix sounding good on an honest, transparent set of speakers, it will hold up well in the various "exaggerated" systems that you'll encounter in the real world--your car, your iPod, your living room stereo, etc.

 

[gecko zzed]

So tell this NOOB what is the differntio between speakers and monitors?

Actually, there is no difference.

A speaker is a speaker. To monitor is what you use a speaker for. Most monitoring is done in a studio, so speakers used in a studio are called monitors.

Some companies make speakers specifically for this purpose, and they design them to be effective and accurate (which tends to make them expensive).

Other companies are more interested in luring in the gullible, and will brand their speakers as being 'monitors' even if there has been no special engineering involved.

The same applies to speakers used domestically for listening. There are plenty of well-engineered and effective speakers, and there are many more that are just ordinary.

So you don't necessarily need to look at 'monitors' as such. What you need to look at are good quality speakers that reproduce sound accurately.

 

[fritsthegirl]

Actually, there is no difference.

A speaker is a speaker. To monitor is what you use a speaker for. Most monitoring is done in a studio, so speakers used in a studio are called monitors.

Some companies make speakers specifically for this purpose, and they design them to be effective and accurate (which tends to make them expensive).

Other companies are more interested in luring in the gullible, and will brand their speakers as being 'monitors' even if there has been no special engineering involved.

The same applies to speakers used domestically for listening. There are plenty of well-engineered and effective speakers, and there are many more that are just ordinary.

So you don't necessarily need to look at 'monitors' as such. What you need to look at are good quality speakers that reproduce sound accurately.

Hmmm, and what then hits the criteria for a good speaker/monitor? I gather from what you're saying it goes deeper than it just sounding good in the shop, how do you know what you're listening to out of the speakers is true to what is being fed in? Is there something in the manufacture that makes it quality, like the materials/electronics I should be watching out for? Bearing in mind my budget is limited, but it doesn't really matter, I'd still like to know.

 

[miroslav]

Good monitors tend to be more transparent and flat in their response.
Basic speakers for music listening tend to impart more of a "pleasure" curve on the music.

 

[fritsthegirl]

That question wasn't directed at me, but I'll take a stab nonetheless:

Speakers are designed to flatter the music; monitors are designed to reveal the music.

Consumer speakers generally have some built in EQ--a design algorithm that tweaks the music before it hits your ears. Usually there's some bass emphasis as well as some additional high end sheen. In other words, they're a bit scooped (in some cases, a LOT scooped)--in the context of graphic EQ, it's known as the smiley face.

When you mix on these "consumer" speakers that distort the reality of your sound, you further distort that reality by compensating (even subconsciously) for the altered sound that you hear.

Conversely, the point of a good studio monitor is to be as "flat" as possible, and not exaggerate anything in your mix. The goal here is that when you get your mix sounding good on an honest, transparent set of speakers, it will hold up well in the various "exaggerated" systems that you'll encounter in the real world--your car, your iPod, your living room stereo, etc.

Is it a given that anything that sounds good in specific studio speakers/monitors will sound good on normal what you get at home speakers?

 

[fritsthegirl]

Good monitors tend to be more transparent and flat in their response.
Basic speakers for music listening tend to impart more of a "pleasure" curve on the music.

I think I get what you're saying, I have heard some nice home speakers before but I don't think I will understand fully the difference between them and monitor speakers (that I haven't heard in action) until I get to hear it with my own ears. Wonder where I can go for that...maybe that shop by the North Circular.

 

[WhiteStrat]

Is it a given that anything that sounds good in specific studio speakers/monitors will sound good on normal what you get at home speakers?

No, nothing here is a given. But the "flatter" your speakers, and the better treated your mixing room is, the better your mix will translate to other environments--including those speakers at home.

 

[fritsthegirl]

No, nothing here is a given. But the "flatter" your speakers, and the better treated your mixing room is, the better your mix will translate to other environments--including those speakers at home.

It's probably a good guess then that my Sony's are 'not flat' and could be livening up things more than they should. Are there any compensations you can make when recording for this? (I'm Dutch, I'll do almost anything to save a buck).

 

[Steenamaroo]

The best compensation is knowing your setup and the flaws.
If you spend a lot of time listening to commercial music that you know very well, you'll almost automatically begin to compensate when it comes to mixing your own material.

For example, if your speakers are pretty bass heavy, you should know that and should know roughly where the bass should sit on that system.