Awesome Sounding Death Metal Project

[Hubbawho]

I just listened to the mix again and I still like it, however the female vocalist in comparison to the male vocalist feals almost out of context because she doesn't sing steadily or in tune. Normally I would've suggested using auto-tune and some major compression to help steady her voice out...also I would've turned her down a bit. But judging from your responses I'm going to speculate that you already fixed the problem and then they didn't like your solution. lol I don't mean to be mean, but that song REALLY could've been perfect if she had just performed better.

 

[Wireneck]

Couple of things that jumped out at me that I don't think anyone mentioned. Guitars in this style of music are normally way more out front. They seemed very sub-dued and not "loud" enough for this style.
The drums are a little flat sounding, they are punchy and sound like they have plenty of compression but could be brighter. The whole mix actually sounds a little dark on my monitors but take that for what you will.
The clean falsetto vocals were pretty bad. Not only did they sound out of place but they came off super dry? Didn't sound like there was much room sound or verb going on at all in this piece.
Sounds pretty good overall.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

On the female vocal part:

First thing I did was put Antares Autotune 4.0 on it. She rejected it outright and said it sounded "wrong." It was set to be transparent; i.e. there were no artifacts or audible shifting.

Secondly, I put some chorus on it using Soundblender. Rejected for sounding "effecty" even when I had it at 2%!

Originally, I compressed the vocal pretty heavily--also rejected for sounding "unnatural."

I also tried running wetter reverb--rejected for sounding "weird."

Literally--I couldn't win.

In the end I ran Analog Channel 1 very hard, Analog Channel 2, a BF Pultec MEQ-5, and a Focusrite D2 EQ into very light reverb. Trust me, for what little I was allowed to work with I managed to make the vocal many times bigger than the original track.

Sidenote: the vocalist sang so softly that I had to boost the preamp +60db gain to get a -14 dbfs recording signal....

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Guitars in this style of music are normally way more out front. They seemed very sub-dued and not "loud" enough for this style.

Yeah but I hate guitar-o-centric mixes passionately. Things are better balanced out in this mix IMHO compared to your everyday average mettle mix.

Plus, there *was* a guitar-o-centric mix (mix #4 I believe) that was universally hated by the band and myself because it sounded "weak" compared to putting the bass and drums on an even level with the guitars.

Probably personal preference though.

The whole mix actually sounds a little dark on my monitors but take that for what you will.

Wow. Check your monitors or environment because this mix is pretty bright, with a lot of high end.

 

[treymonfauntre]

it sounds really bass heavy here too but i think thats cause its a metal song and the bass drum isn't clicky!. i really don't like the drum sound at all. its cool that you aren't using triggers and all.. but that snare sounds awful. its got no life to it at all. it actually sounds like the snare was recorded and saved as a 96kbps mp3 or something. very lo fi.

 

[xfinsterx]

Recording for 17 years total. Semi-professionally (as a hobby, but getting paid) I've been doing stuff for about 4 years before I started doing things professionally (how I pay the bills) for the last year.

Keep in mind that I'm in a well-stocked studio running a ProTools HD 4 system using high end preamps and microphones, and recording expensive equipment (10k Tama drumkit, Mesa/Boogie Road King head, 8x10 Hartke cabinets etc...) as well. That makes a TON of difference.

Also, keep in mind the total recording/mixing time for JUST THIS SONG was probably in the vicinity of 50 hours.

I feel like this recording should be better considering all that you have to work with and your experience Cloneboy.

The guitars are mushy.
The female voice is very dark and dosent even sound like its on the same planet as the rest of the mix.
The drums sound a little boxy.
The hi hats are EVERYWHERE, zero seperation.

It seems like it should sound better.

Im not trying to be jerky.
Im just a little perplexed as to why this sounds very average.
You also appear arrogant by putting the title of your post as
"Awesome".
I get the impression that you feel you have something to prove.
And who could blame you after that whole "Cloneboy vs. Seifer" thing.
All you have proved sir is that you can achieve a quite average result.

Nothing "Awesome" about that.

The tone of my post would be quite different if the "Awesome" thing wouldnt have been there.

It would have been the usual constructive critique as usual.

But for all your posts...like this one.
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=1582445&postcount=22

I mean.. dude, there is some good info there in that post of yours Cloneboy!

But then you turn in a recording like this with the "Awesome" tag on it..........It dosent add up.

-Finster

 

[RAMI]

I don't know....I guess after reading the post about the 17 years of experience and to "keep in mind" about the PROTOOLS, etc..etc...I was expecting a major polished, professional sounding recording...I guess it's my fault for expecting too much after reading about the experience and gear, and the 50 hours of recording....So the best I can say is that it was......................................um..........................................good.

 

[Wireneck]

Wow. Check your monitors or environment because this mix is pretty bright, with a lot of high end.

Listening back to back against a couple of metal things I have sitting right here on my desk top. When I said "dark" i didn't mean that there was no high end content, I just meant that it wasn't present where you would normally hear it in this style. The kick and snare are especially flat sounding against some other comercial metal recordings.

Yeah but I hate guitar-o-centric mixes passionately.

Im not saying have it out on top of everything but they certainly could be a little louder without being overbearing. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Hey, ultimately this mix is precisely what the band wanted--not necessarily the limit of my abilities or what I considered to be the best way of doing things.

Personally I liked the production on these projects better:

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

I feel like this recording should be better considering all that you have to work with and your experience Cloneboy.

Except you cannot state accurately EVERYTHING I have to work with, namely being the band's attitudes towards sound, their preferences, and the restrictions on what they would let me do.

The guitars are mushy.

As a fellow professional you should know that when a guitarist says **THAT** is my sound and won't budge from it you are basically stuck as an engineer with that sound.

You should have heard what the guitars would have sounded like had I not brought in the Mesa/Boogie Road King. Originally they wanted to record with a Johnson Millenium 2x12 and a Line6 Spider.

The female voice is very dark and dosent even sound like its on the same planet as the rest of the mix.

Personally I don't think the female vocals even belong in the song for a variety of reasons (stylistically/lack of talent) but that is neither here nor there. She's a member of the band and it's my job to present it as best I can. Unfortunately, in my opinion, nobody on this earth could do that... so at the very least I let her have her way for how the vocals should sound.

She sings *extremely* softly and breathy and cannot stand that "airy" quality about her vocal tracks. She wanted to use a darker microphone and *cut* the high end. That's what made her happy.

The drums sound a little boxy.

The drummer wanted some "woof" to his sounds. There were earlier mixes that were "too tight" that had less boxiness to them but those were rejected.

The hi hats are EVERYWHERE, zero seperation.

Who say's that's a bad thing? You sound like you think there should only be one way of doing things....

Also, you should also know as a professional that the single largest factor in how drums sound--if you aren't using samples or a drum machine--is the drummer. While the drummer didn't "bash" his high hats he didn't play them softly either. As a result the high hats really filled the room mics, which resulted in a more centered sound.

Plus, the drummer wants to hear "lots" of high hat. He said so himself come mix time. I obliged him.

You also appear arrogant by putting the title of your post as "Awesome".

Shrug. I put it there because I'm tired of posting mixes that get zero attention. I also happen to think it sounds "awesome." Not great, mind you... because "great" is a few steps above awesome.

The tone of my post would be quite different if the "Awesome" thing wouldnt have been there.

So it's safe to say your's is not an objective opinion.

Thanks for your comments, but I'd prefer professional comments rather than comments fueled by whatever personal problem you have against me. In fact, I'd prefer you to just keep your lip buttoned if you don't have an *objective* criticism or comment.

 

[HangDawg]

The kick lacks definition. When it goes into the double kick part, it's just a mess and buries the guitars in the process which are already kind of muddy. Bass guitar is kind of not there either but that's what happens when the kick and guitars are eating up all it's space.

They are pretty tight and I even like the song. BUT!!!!!!!


They should fire the female singer, she's horrible. I know that's not anything under your control but I almost vomitted when she started singing. She must be blowing someone in the band, eh?



[edit]
What did you use for the kick mic?

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Drummer wanted "woof", what can I say?

Literally we went thru 7 rounds of mixes over a 2 month period. Personally I was happiest with mix 2 or 3--but those were all "my" mixes without band input.

For better or worse, what you hear is what the band wanted--who said this is the way they've always wanted to sound.

Trust me, I could make a *LONG* laundry list of things I think aren't optimal (such as too much 2k clickiness on the bass, snare overcompressed and tuned too tightly for my tastes, guitars with too much gain and not enough high end--also the band favors BC Rich and Ibanez guitars... gross, way too little lower mids cut out of the kick, toms too snappy, I could go on but why bother...) However, since when do things have to be optimal for something to be awesome?

Personally I can only name a scant few "perfect" albums, and many of them I don't enjoy because of their overproduction.

Don't get me started on what I'd change with the band. For one the songs are too disorganized, too complex, deviate too far from the pop song structure, contain WAY too many parts simultaneously, too many notes, too much movement, way too long, and way too over the top. But hey, it's metal... par for the course on bad songwriting.

And yeah, I'm not a fan of the female vocals either. Probably the biggest non-fan of those in the universe.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

What did you use for the kick mic?

AKG D112 on each kick drum (2).

It's not the *mic* as much as how the kicks were eq'd. Bombfactory Pultec EQP-1's with moderate 100hz and large 4k boosts with a Sony Oxford pulling out most of the midrange. However, at 200hz the drummer wanted less of a cut there than I had originally had.

He wanted that "woof."

Trust me, it's a matter of personal taste on the band and not poor mic choice, recording or mixing.

My original mix of the drums were extremely tight with moderate cymbals and high hat. Basically--it sounded like your typical metal drums. Band didn't want that.

 

[HangDawg]

AKG D112 on each kick drum (2).

It's not the *mic* as much as how the kicks were eq'd. Bombfactory Pultec EQP-1's with moderate 100hz and large 4k boosts with a Sony Oxford pulling out most of the midrange. However, at 200hz the drummer wanted less of a cut there than I had originally had.

He wanted that "woof."

Trust me, it's a matter of personal taste on the band and not poor mic choice, recording or mixing.

My original mix of the drums were extremely tight with moderate cymbals and high hat. Basically--it sounded like your typical metal drums. Band didn't want that.

That blows. Some people are just idiots. I can see wanting something to sound a particular way, but when that particular way sounds like shit and interferes with other parts of the song, someone needs to smack em up side the head. I'm glad I don't record other bands to put food on the table. I can reject working with a band for whatever reason I want.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

That blows. Some people are just idiots. I can see wanting something to sound a particular way, but when that particular way sounds like shit and interferes with other parts of the song, someone needs to smack em up side the head.

I don't think it sounds like "shit" but I wanted a tighter sound, because it fits the band more. It's woofy and that's what he wanted.

I'm glad I don't record other bands to put food on the table. I can reject working with a band for whatever reason I want.

Nah, you just can't take it personally. The bands I record allow me the time and equipment to work on my own projects, which will be the way I want.

Trust me, it's better to make a living recording bad or clueless bands than it is working a regular job.

 

[metalhead28]

If I could just make another comment about this song (not the recording).....
Speaking as a death metal fan - If I popped in this CD, I would think it was some pretty cool stuff, but as soon as I heard that female vocal that CD is coming out and probably never going in again.....I have listened to this a couple of times and that stuff just KILLS me....it is quite unfortunate.
Not a slag on you at all, but it would be a crime to let that go without pressing those dudes HEAVILY about getting rid of that stuff....I don't know, maybe I'm just really narrow minded!

 

[Sonixx]

I didn't know what to expect with the word AWESOME in the thread title except that maybe you think your work is awesome

well, I listened before I read the posts

IMO the mix is pretty unique, not my cup of tea, but hey...

Likes and Dislikes (preferences)
Liked the guitar tone
Disliked the buried nature of the guitars
Disliked the kick. It's very clear the drummer wants woofy
Disliked the snare... way to thuddy
Disliked the girl's off-key voice... but I may grow to like it

Overall my impression is really more positive that negative... but you set up such a high expectation coming in... sorry but not awesome... good and even pretty good

I don't want to pile on, but Cloneboy you sure are defensive

 

[cellardweller]

If I could just make another comment about this song (not the recording).....
Speaking as a death metal fan - If I popped in this CD, I would think it was some pretty cool stuff, but as soon as I heard that female vocal that CD is coming out and probably never going in again.....I have listened to this a couple of times and that stuff just KILLS me....it is quite unfortunate.
Not a slag on you at all, but it would be a crime to let that go without pressing those dudes HEAVILY about getting rid of that stuff....I don't know, maybe I'm just really narrow minded!

What he said.
Maybe duplicate the offending clean voc. track/delay/reverb...

 

[Garry Sharp]

Not my genre, but....great guitar tones, the drums are certainly distinctive, I can hear the effect you described the band wanting. The fem vox are out of tune and more importantly lacking in projection and confidence. Really strange inclusion.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

I don't want to pile on, but Cloneboy you sure are defensive

C'mon, nobody respects people that don't argue and fight for their point of view.

While XFinster kind of annoyed me with his comments, I respect the fact that he's a good engineer and he sticks to his guns (however unloaded they may be).