audio interface: Lexicon vs M-audio

[Shadow_7]

Talked the guy down to $80. So I now have two Mobile Pres ($80 each, $160 total). I can't seem to be able to use both of them at the same time in linux. Works fine if I use each individually though. Which I sort of expected for a USB device.

arecord -t wav -f S16_LE -r 48000 -D hw:2 outfile.wav
arecord -t wav -f S16_LE -r 48000 -D hw:3 outfile.wav

It seems to have trouble with -c 1 since I'm only recording one source each. Which it didn't have trouble with when having only one connected. I guess I'll use a different PC to do simultaneous usage. I kind of wanted to compare side by side a phantom powered LDC with an electret mini mono. From the same sound source at the same time. Only multiple PCs introduces the inconsistency I didn't want. Like phantom power voltage being dependant on the laptops usb bus power. And the desktops usb power might be different.

 

[Shadow_7]

After some configuring I was able to record from both simultaneously. It still barks at being told the number of channels, so it recorded stereo(default) from both devices. Even though I only had inputs for one channel.

Pretty hideous from a players perspective. Haven't played much in weeks. No warmup. Just rambling quickly to get something recorded. But here's the Mobile Pre with a Trombone playing recorded with an Audio Technica 4033a and Giant Squid Mini Mono with a fully loaded giant squid battery box. Recorded with arecord so no laptop feedback on the levels. So I used what works for a large ensemble. And clipped and normalized the samples in audacity. After extracting the mono (left only) track with sox.

I really don't like either mic on tenor trombone. It is surprising how similar they sound. Given that one is a $400 LDC, and the other a $15 electret(with $72 battery box). Is it the crystal clear highly detailed sound you'd expect from a high end pre and converter, no. Is it respectable enough to use at the HS talent show, you bet. Unless you plan on selling the results to audiophiles. Just my opinion.

 

[Shadow_7]

Yet another not fair comparisson. Same at4033a mic through a DMP3 into a Delta 44. The preamp/converter I actually like. Although I'm sure there are many others that put it in it's place. Several hours / beers later. And recorded on a desktop pci bus. Versus the laptops USB bus for the others. Not normalized, but levels a little hot to start with. Not much noticeable difference through the laptops speakers. But through the Delta 44 and BX8's, a very noticeable difference.

 

[question444]

If I were to use the computer that I already have (no firewire), should I go for usb or pci?

Also, a guy at guitar center told me that to avoid noise, I have to get something external. Is that true? Should I rule out internal sound cards?

 

[warble2]

If I were to use the computer that I already have (no firewire), should I go for usb or pci?

Also, a guy at guitar center told me that to avoid noise, I have to get something external. Is that true? Should I rule out internal sound cards?

I've never owned a USB interface, but have had experience with PCI stuff and mostly good experiences. You could add a firewire PCI card to your current PC and go with a firewire interface...just a thought.

Typically, the thought for external vs. internal is that an internal card might be more subject to picking up interference from inside the PC case, where as an external interface or a PCI interface with a "breakout" box will not be subject to the interference inside the case. When you start getting into higher-end stuff like Lynx cards, this seems to be a little less of a concern or the experience.

I've used a Echo MIA Midi internal PCI and a M-Audio 24/96 internal PCI card, and they faired pretty well inside the of case. I've been more happy with the external interfaces I've used - Motu 896 (seemed noisier than the others), Gina 24, Firepod and Layla 3G in regards to noise.

As stated above, there will be noise on interfaces and gain staging is important. The noise hasn't been an issue for me with my current configuration.

 

[dgatwood]

Also, a guy at guitar center told me that to avoid noise, I have to get something external. Is that true? Should I rule out internal sound cards?

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that noise is unavoidable internally. 99% of the noise in computers comes from power supply rail noise, not induced noise, so the location of the card isn't nearly as much of an issue. There are plenty of reasons not to go with PCI---because the standard is being phased out in favor of the incompatible PCIe, because PCI gear is basically all old designs without the most modern converters, because PCI devices almost never have preamps---but noise isn't a big one, at least over USB; if a PCI device doesn't work, neither will USB, since USB devices typically assume a fairly constant, fairly filtered 5VDC power supply.

FireWire is assumed to provide not-so-filtered power at anywhere from 12-28VDC, so external devices automatically need a pretty significant DC-DC power supply to handle it. As a result, FireWire devices tend to be better at avoiding this noise than PCI devices, which generally assume the power to be clean. As always, YMMV.

 

[snellular5]

ive been using the lexicon alpha for a while now and i find it actually really good and yes u can go to the instrument jack my using a xlr to trs

 

[Shadow_7]

If I were to use the computer that I already have (no firewire), should I go for usb or pci?

It really depends on your needs. If you need 20+ channels of input at 24 bit and 192kHz, then you probably have no choice but to go PCI or PCIe. If you just need 2 channels at 16 bit and 48kHz, then usb is more than sufficient. Or you can split the difference and get a pci firewire card and a firewire device.

As far as noise, your computers electronics generate interference. Your monitor generates interference, even an LCD. So having a usb, firewire, or pci device with breakout box is but one way to get some distance between your interference sensitve gear and the interference.

When I first started recording stuff, I went with a PC mic with a clip. Only clipping it to my laptops LCD with the cable there of draped across the LCD was quite revealing as to the affect of RFI on audio devices. Ever use your cell phone next to your stereo system when it was on?

And then there's the noise you get from preamps... It might be 1:70. but if you record at 10 and normalize to 70, then it's 7:70 or 10% noise. Which is noticeable, even on cheap equipment.

 

[dgatwood]

It really depends on your needs. If you need 20+ channels of input at 24 bit and 192kHz, then you probably have no choice but to go PCI or PCIe.

Nah. FireWire should handle that easily even if you're limited to 100 Mbps optical FireWire from a kilometer away. That's only 88 Mbps. Peanuts.

 

[TyphoidHippo]

Nah. FireWire should handle that easily even if you're limited to 100 Mbps optical FireWire from a kilometer away. That's only 88 Mbps. Peanuts.

heh....I had to pull up a calculator - but that's right. 87.890625 to be exact, lol....

With two going back to the interface for his main outs, and eight stereo outs for headphone mixes, he would still be well in the realm of (normal) firewire's capability...

I've never really thought about it like this before - you gotta be doing some crazy shit to max out a firewire bus.

 

[Shadow_7]

I've never really thought about it like this before - you gotta be doing some crazy shit to max out a firewire bus.

Well, if you're inputing it AND outputting it through firewire to an external harddrive at the same time on the same bus...

 

[dgatwood]

heh....I had to pull up a calculator - but that's right. 87.890625 to be exact, lol....

With two going back to the interface for his main outs, and eight stereo outs for headphone mixes, he would still be well in the realm of (normal) firewire's capability...

I've never really thought about it like this before - you gotta be doing some crazy shit to max out a firewire bus.

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Some broken (IMHO) devices request way too big a bus reservation, but at least if the device and drivers were created by somebody sane, then yeah, it's pretty unlikely that you'll saturate one with audio interfaces.

Well, if you're inputing it AND outputting it through firewire to an external harddrive at the same time on the same bus...

Mixing hard drives becomes a bad idea when the bus is under a heavy load due to the increased latency in HD accesses that this causes. If your audio app isn't smart enough to buffer far enough ahead (and sadly, many don't), you'll end up with stuttering problems. Technically, that's almost always the fault of the audio app, but still....

 

[wargasms]

ive had a now discontinued m-audio omnistudio usb interface which i loved. I sold my recording gear last year. The only drawbacki didnt like was its lack of portability if you want to record with a laptop on the go., but i never needed portability. I never had any noticeable latency issues or problems from it.

Now im starting to get back into it but not enough for a big investment in expensive gear.

i tried the tapco by mackie link usb...didnt work for me
i tried the presonus inspire firewire interface, didnt work for me

so i went back on ebay, and got another omnistudio for $100 bucks shipped.
i think if you can score one of those, its a great bang for buck recording interface.