attenuator pads...

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thajeremy

thajeremy

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I ordered 6 Whirlwind -30db pads. I wanted -20's but these were on ebay and the guy had 6 so I bought them all. Anyway...I first pluged up a JM27 (similar to an MXL 603) and spoke into the mic...sounded nice...crisp...could really hear the higher frequencies...then i hooked up the pad. Had to really crank my DMP3 to get the same levels..which is what I was looking for because in the past, when using these mic's as drum overheads, I had the pre set as low as it would go and it would still clip. Well...after plugging in the pad, I lost all of the high end...Im kinda scared that Im not going to be pleased with these pads. How do most people handle clipping when recording drums? I use 7 mics on drums and they all clip and all my pre's are set to their lowest settings and my sound cards levels are set to their lowest settings. any other suggestions?
 
What is your chain? If it is mic->pre->board->card, which inputs are you plugging the pres into? They should be going into line level inputs, not mic inputs.

If it is mic->board->card, then I don't have a clue.
 
I used the dmp3 for overheads...the chain is mic>pre>soundcard. The snare, kick and toms went into a mixer using inserts as directouts to soundcard.
 
I use the 603's for over-heads quite often and recognize that they're quite a bit hotter than say a SM57 but I rarely see them over drive at reasonable distances.

I'm not familiar with your mic or the pads...if the mics need 48 VDC, make sure the pads don't block it. That shouldn't be an issue but it's a thought. Are you certain that the pads are configured to properly match the mic and the Pre input? I assume you're going to the mic input on the DMP...if so, make sure that the pad is a balanced in/out type.

Here's a great site that shows how to make your own...any size you need. It's a lot simpler than you think.

Best luck.
 
Could you be sending a +4 signal to a -10 input or vice versa?
 
Adam P said:
Could you be sending a +4 signal to a -10 input or vice versa?
Click to expand...
I wish it were that simple...but i have checked all those..:(
 
What soundcard are you using and how exactly are you hooking up the dmp3 to it? Could be you think you've got the signal levels correct (-10 vs +4) but infact you don't?

Also, I would think that -30db is a pretty huge pad level. I would say drop down to a 10db pad to see if that does the trick for you, and if you need more than go up to 20, but I think 30 might be just be affecting the overal signal quality too much, IMHO...
 
I am using a Terratec EWS88/MT. Its just like the new phase 88 just a little older. I have the card set to +4db and the high gain off on the dmp3. there are also input levels and gain controls inside the EWS control panel and they are also pulled down to zero. I agree that the -30 db pads may be a bit much but there were 6 on ebay for $10 each and since I wanted at least 6 anyway, I got them. I could get them from full compass for $17 each. that is the cheapest I could find them anywhere so you see why I chose the -30 db. I may go ahead and buy 2 -10db from full compass just to see what happens. I wanted enough to put on every drum because I have to back the mics up so far from the drums to keep them from clipping. I have had snare tracks that are just full of static every time the snare is hit. I have switched mic's and cables to make sure that wasnt the problem. I have not used the attenuators to record the drums yet, just tested it on my voice, so i dont know how it will affect the sound. Ill try to give them a test in the next few days.
 
So here's the thing - it just doesn't make sense to have to turn the gain so far down when tracking drums, unless you have the OH mics much too close and your drummer is giving the skins a beatdown. I suspect something is either not hooked up correctly, or there is something going on with your software.

Are you using balanced signal cables to connect the Terratec to the dmp3? You should set the faders in your software at 0 (or unity) and adjust the overall signal input level from the dmp3. That's the starting point - of course you can adjust as necessary.

I've used the mxl 603s on OH many times with no problems. The jm27 has a max spl of 130db, which should be fine for drums. So I guess my point is unless you are recording insanely loud drums, I don't think a mic pad is the answer to the problem... just my $.02
 
when I track anything else, I dont have a problem. I am able to turn up the gain on the dmp3. I have tried all of my mics with differents sources just to try to count out cables, mics or other hardware. the only place i have the trouble is on the drums and its not just the overheads...its all of them...when tom 1 is struck..that mic clips...same with all the drums....snare mic clips when the snare is hit...and all of this is with all of my pre's turned down as far as possible. Im going to try the pads just to see how they do...as a matter of fact, ill take 2 ATM29HE's and put them on the snare. One with a pad and one without and ill post the clips...you can tell me what you think...
 
I may have just found another problem in my chain. The cables...although I know they cant cause the clipping...I cant believe the differance they can make in the quality of a recording...here is some proof...I took 2 ATM29HE's and put them on a snare. One had a cheap Musicians Friend cable and one had a Whirlwind cable...I know it is cheap too...but better than the MF. This match was by accident..I just grabbed 2 cables...I noticed a HUGE differance in the sound of these 2 tracks. They were both recorded at the same time...2 mics on one snare. I switched mic 1 to mic 2's cable and mic 2 to mic 1's cable and the sound moved from one mic to the other...so i narrowed it down to the cable. anyway...here is what i found....

Whirlwind cable....sounds very good to me. :) : http://webpages.charter.net/caoboy/whirlwind cable.wav

MF cable...souds like crap :( : http://webpages.charter.net/caoboy/MF cable.wav

I will do more testing with the attenuators once I go through all my cables and get rid of the shitty ones...
 
Yeah - that's a dramatic difference! While the better clip sounds more open, they both sound very muffled to me. There absolutley no snare ring (which might be what you are after, I dunno). How are you positioning the mic? You might try side micing the snare - I find in a 1-mic situation it gives a nice blend of resonance and attack.
 
mikedaul said:
Yeah - that's a dramatic difference! While the better clip sounds more open, they both sound very muffled to me. There absolutley no snare ring (which might be what you are after, I dunno). How are you positioning the mic? You might try side micing the snare - I find in a 1-mic situation it gives a nice blend of resonance and attack.
Click to expand...

yes..it was muffled pretty good...i was pressing it with my fingers because there was a lot of noise comming from the snares...just needs to be adjusted and for this experiment...i didnt feel like putting that much time into it... :p

right now, I have 6 more XLR ends to put on the snake Im making and I will have to test it...maybe I can combine the attenuator and snake test into one...save a lil time...
 
thajeremy said:
I cant believe the differance they can make in the quality of a recording...
Click to expand...
Neither can I.
here is some proof...I took 2 ATM29HE's and put them on a snare. One had a cheap Musicians Friend cable and one had a Whirlwind cable...I know it is cheap too...but better than the MF. This match was by accident..I just grabbed 2 cables...I noticed a HUGE differance in the sound of these 2 tracks.
Click to expand...
You can't make any comparison of two random cables. You need to test a statistically significant number of cables of one brand against another brand, in a double blinded fashion. All you have done is shown that one individual cable sounds better than the other - brand is irrelevant.

I for one don't believe that anyone can tell the difference in 20 feet of cable, if connections and other hardware are identical. Many others disagree.

Here' are some interesting opinions on the subject:
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/4580/0

(Sorry for the off topic digression. :))
 
crazydoc said:
Neither can I.You can't make any comparison of two random cables. You need to test a statistically significant number of cables of one brand against another brand, in a double blinded fashion. All you have done is shown that one individual cable sounds better than the other - brand is irrelevant.

I for one don't believe that anyone can tell the difference in 20 feet of cable, if connections and other hardware are identical. Many others disagree.

Here' are some interesting opinions on the subject:
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/4580/0

(Sorry for the off topic digression. :))
Click to expand...

you are right. I know that what I said was specifically against MF cables...I have had a ton of them...many were duds right out of the box...and I have VOWED never to buy anymore!!!!! However, I actually meant for my argument to prove that cables can make a differance. people argue this point all the time. This is the first real proof that I have. I dont think this is a faulty connection because the signal is constant. I didnt get static when i moved the cable. Im not really sure what I should do to test the cable. I just know that I wont be spending anymore on cheap cables. I have a 500 foot roll of West Penn cable that I just finished making a 30 foot 12 channel snake out of...I may use the remaining cable for 15 footers.
 
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