attack on compression, odd snare pop

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Bare graves

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hi guys this is my first post
i am pretty sure my points have been addressed howver there are hundreds of posts.

i am near the end of my music tech diploma but i find my tutors have not explained things well and spent 5 minutes only on mastering.. out of two years.

so here is my problem firstly when i was mixing the snare the hits where really peaking in logic yet they were still quiet which makes no sense to me.

also when you use a longer attack on a compresser say on the snare it means that it wont take effect for a few milli seconds right? surely that means the frist part of the hit is at its orginal level which means the level is not being controlled. its hard to explain but basically whats the point of the attack when trying to control the dynamic range as the frist bit of the hit gets through uncompressed?

can this also create a popping sound? when i mastered the tracks one of them has odd popping sounds when the snare hits. can anyone explain why?
the other tracks are ok because i used midi triggers for snare and bass drum.

most of the equipment i was using was broken and the signal path was noisey. but luckly the genre is Punx

track three is the one with the snare problem
www.myspace.com/visionsofgehenna

sorry about the essay
 
Bare graves said:
also when you use a longer attack on a compresser say on the snare it means that it wont take effect for a few milli seconds right? surely that means the frist part of the hit is at its orginal level which means the level is not being controlled. its hard to explain but basically whats the point of the attack when trying to control the dynamic range as the frist bit of the hit gets through uncompressed?

can this also create a popping sound? when i mastered the tracks one of them has odd popping sounds when the snare hits. can anyone explain why?
Click to expand...

For your first question. Having a parameter for attack is a useful feature of compression. There are many situations in which you want to USE the sound of the natural attack. A snare drum is one of these applications. You don't want to cut off the attack on a snare drum, then it will sound unnatural and pillowy. Many people compress a snare drum leaving only a bit of the attack before compression resulting in a illusion of MORE attack.

Other times, you might want to keep the attack of say a bass guitar but make the note sustain longer. This is a perfect time for a compressor with a slower attack speed.

Sometimes when a compressor is used heavily and only some of the attack transient gets through, there will be a popping noise. I haven't listened to the track. But commonly, you will have the beginning of the attack sneak through and then the compression will clamp down whats left, creating a large difference in volume, sounding like a pop.

You can eliminate the pop by changing the threshold, ratio, and attack time. Hope this answered some of your questions with some extent of clarity. Good luck.
 
Bare graves said:
... my tutors have not explained things well and spent 5 minutes only on mastering.. out of two years.
Click to expand...

Now you can imagine why the guys around here who are not even taking any audio classes are so confused and full of misconceptions....
 
miroslav said:
Now you can imagine why the guys around here who are not even taking any audio classes are so confused and full of misconceptions....
Click to expand...

Of course, if it's a recording and mixing music technology class, it kind of begs the question why they'd need to spend more than 5 minutes on mastering... :p
 
I was going to comment that even 5 minutes was too much time. :)
Like how long does it take for the tutor to say:
"Mastering is simply the process of running your stereo mix through a brickwall limiter set for stun."


:D


;)



OK....better duck now, 'cuz here comes the flying debris! :p
 
So I actually listened to your song and I am 99.9% positive that the snare is clipping on the transient. It doesn't happen every time, but my cheap computer speakers pop when it does. They only do this when my music clips. You either recorded to hot or increased your gain too much during compression is my guess. You should be able to see clipping in your DAW software program. Zoom in on the snare hits where this is happening. Good luck.
 
Yes...it's just clipping.

Probably in your DAW, you didn't hear it 'cuz most DAWs these days run at 32 bit...so you can literally slam your levels in the meter, and it still sounds fine...
...but when you mix down and play back on a 16bit CD player...the clips are heard.
 
ah thanks guys!

yer in the daw there was no clipping so it must of been the compression from the bounce down?

and thank you Erockrazor for clearing that up for me :)
 
It helps me to put the image of the mechanics of what is happening to the sound out of my head when I use a compressor. Just keep in mind what it does to the sound you hear and use it accordingly. Faster attacks sound smoother, darker, and denser. Longer attacks sound aggressive and brighter.

As for why the snare doesn't sound loud even though the peaks look loud, My guess is you didn't record a powerful snare sound in the room mics and overheads.
 
I hope you didn't spend a lot of money on the course.Two years of music tech school and they didn't teach you how a compressor works and how to use one.That's like learning to speak without pronunciation
 
my course is free and it seems to cover alot of stuff
sound creation and manipulation with building your own synths, acoustic theory, film and media with sound and so on but me and my tutor fall out because were both really opinionated haha :P and most of the recording stuff is not really as detailed as i would like it to be.

just to clarify if you just want to control the dynamic range will compression with any kind of attack (fast or slow) will have the start of the sound at its original velocity?
 
Bare graves said:
just to clarify if you just want to control the dynamic range will compression with any kind of attack (fast or slow) will have the start of the sound at its original velocity?
Click to expand...

Not really. On most compressors, as soon as you hit the threshold, the compressor starts compressing. But it starts compressing with a vanishingly small ratio. The ratio builds up until it hits the attack time. Then it is compressing at the full ratio you set.

Say the ratio is 4 and the attack time is 10 ms.

You hit the threshold at 0 ms. The compressor starts compressing with a 0.0000001 ratio.
You hit 5 ms. Now the compressor is compressing with a 2 ratio.
You hit 10 ms. Now the compressor is compressing with a 4 ratio.




I'm sure some flavors of compressor do it differently, but this is the type I run into most often.
 
I'm not sure if this answers your question directly, but attack time is the amount of time it takes for the compressor to “kick in” and attenuate the sound once it has passed the threshold. The longer/slower you set the attack, the more signal gets through unattenuated. In other words, you can leave the transients of an audio source in tact while still compressing the signal. Using a very fast attack can significantly reduce the transients of percussive instruments and dull the sound. With software plugins, we can actually get instantaneous compression as the signal can be pre-processed before it is heard.

Hope this helps,
Damian
 
Front End Audio said:
I'm not sure if this answers your question directly, but attack time is the amount of time it takes for the compressor to “kick in” and attenuate the sound once it has passed the threshold.
Click to expand...
Again, most compressors start attenuating as soon as the threshold is hit. The attack time is the time to reach "full compression", not the time to start compressing.
 
Chibi Nappa thank you ever so much that made so much sense :D

:D
 
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