Ashes and Trees - new original

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Ashes and Trees - new original updated 5-9

Retracked the lead vocals yesterday.
Tweaked lots of stuff. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.



New cello - used the VST that Bubba recommended (it's all his fault! ;) )

Played with a bunch of levels, specially the drums. Moved a few vocal BG pieces a smidge to line them up a bit better (didn't' do all). Didn't retrack anything yet.
New mix:
(mix removed)


Old mix:
Not real happy with the vocals, wondering if I should retrack and double them. Muted the cello during the guitar lead in the bridge, thought it was interfering. Thinking the drums need to come up in the mix a little - but maybe not the kick and overheads? Got to give my ears a break!
 
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Really like the cello, I didn't realize it was midi until it transitioned between notes. Those legato moves kind of break the illusion unfortunately. Mix-wise everything sounds really well balanced on my headphones, sounds like a real nice mix to me.
 
easlern said:
Really like the cello, I didn't realize it was midi until it transitioned between notes. Those legato moves kind of break the illusion unfortunately. Mix-wise everything sounds really well balanced on my headphones, sounds like a real nice mix to me.
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Thanks for the listen. The cello is actually a Casio keyboard, not midi! I think keeping it a little low in volume disguises the lack of glissando (is that the right word?)
 
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Hi, Mike. Firstly, this is a nice-sounding song, but there are issues with the mixing that (IMO) beset all your songs, and you need to sort it out.

Firstly, in my opinion, the cello sound isn't realistic enough to take such a prominent position in the mix. Either a more realistic cello needs to be found, or a completely different sound used. This is a fault unique to this particular song. (Have you tried the free VST "Cellofan"? It's an X86 VST, but sounds ok for a freebie. :) )

Now on to the bugbear. I'm finding the drums buried, as usual. I'm not sure why you have such difficulty in mixing the drums to a suitable level - seriously, they're bum-titting along in the background like some sort of home organ accompaniment rather being a contributing instrument in their own right. You've been posting songs regularly to this clinic for as long as I've been here, but you're not getting this basic balance right. You often make good spots with faults on other people's mixes, but this basic building block of a decent mix is still eluding you. The drums seem to be an afterthought, buried under forests of guitars, thickets of doubled and harmonised vocals and swamps of effects.

The singing isn't too bad, Mike. Your acoustic guitars sound good, too. Your lead break is pretty good, as well.

Sort out the damned drums, once and for all! :D
 
The acoustic guitar sounded pretty nice.

The lead vocal sounded OK. But it sounded like it was in a rather large space and the rest of the instruments sounded intimate.

The snare and kick had decent tone, but no "umph."

I like the sound of the lead guitar. Bass sounded pretty too.

The fake cello sounded fake. I would replace the part with something else. Put more of that lead guitar in.

There were a couple of spots where the playing got a little sloppy. Right after the drums kick in, the lead and backing vox aren't tight. There was another spot later in the song.
 
Nice song and your mixes are really way better than they were only a few months ago. This sounds pretty good, man.

I do have to echo Bubba's complete paragraph about your drums, though. I know this isn't drum-driven music. Neither is the mellowest Eagles, America, Jim Croce, etc.....I'm not saying you sound like any of those guys, but it's the same vein. "Song-melody-lyric" driven, as opposed to "Guitar riff-Drum groove" driven. But even those artists, when the drums come in, they're "There", not just an afterthought. That's really my only nit, because everything else sounds good to me.
 
I like the song itself a lot.
I thought the vocals sounded really good. I wouldn't do them over.
I like the sound of the cello. Yeah, I could tell it was done with a keyboard.
I have this issue with my stuff too. So what? If it sounds good who cares.
 
Thanks for the listens and comments. For sure I struggle with the drums - that's why I post the mixes here for suggestions! How to do them without just cranking the volume up (and then dominating the mix) is what I needed to figure out. Rami 'gets' what I'm looking for, overall.
If I replaced the cello (or threw it all the way into the background) - any suggestions on what to put in for an instrument to fill up the space between/into verses? I don't think the lead guitar (sound, at least) would work. I was sitting at he keyboard that day tracking, and tried a bunch of stuff, including various VSTi's, and nothing really worked for me.

Triple - the lead vocal has that sound because I threw a double-panned delay on it (left at 1/16 note, quick decay, right at 1/8 note, longer decay), not sure it works for this song, but the vocal sounded too thin without it.
Bubba - do you have a link to that cello VST?
Jessica - thanks. My songs do tend to appeal more to the fairer gender, I guess. :D
 
mjbphotos said:
Thanks for the listen. The cello is actually a Casio keyboard, not midi! I think keeping it a little low in volume disguises the lack of glissando (is that the right word?)
Click to expand...

That sure does sound like a Casio cello! :D
That keyboard misses a lot of aspects of a live cello. It doesn't slide between notes accurately, the attack is all wrong, and there isn't a realistic vibrato. All of this is great if you're doing a song that benefits from a fake cello sound. This song probably isn't that tho.

The other big nit I have is to tighten up the vocals. The lead and BGVs drifted from each other a few times, which makes everything sound cluttered and sloppy.
 
I don't know, cello fooled me. I'm not a big orchestral person though, so yeah. I thought the kit was pretty far back in the mix. The guitars are dominating everything, to my ears. Vocals could be cleared up, maybe check the low mids on them? Now, that lead guitar tone is great. Acoustic sounds dark and full, I like it.
 
Bubba po said:
Download Free Cello plug-in: Cellofan by Soundkey

There you go, Mike. It's not good enough to fool anybody, but it sits ok in a mix.
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Thanks, I'll check it out. Actually non-recordists/musicians get fooled by MIDI instruments all the time. They don't listen the way WE do.

andrushkiwt said:
I don't know, cello fooled me. I'm not a big orchestral person though, so yeah.
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See? ;)

andrushkiwt said:
I thought the kit was pretty far back in the mix. The guitars are dominating everything, to my ears. Vocals could be cleared up, maybe check the low mids on them? Now, that lead guitar tone is great. Acoustic sounds dark and full, I like it.
Click to expand...

So maybe just some volume on the drums, but I'll have to back off the snare and kick, I think, as they seemed ok to me. Maybe the OHs, too, a little.

I wish everything was as easy to record as acoustic guitar! That's a straight 1-mic (AKG P220) on my Taylor, no EQ, no compression. Not telling the secret of the lead guitar tone, but I busted out the Dot semi-hollow for the first time in a couple of years, rather than using my usual Tele.
 
mjbphotos said:
I wish everything was as easy to record as acoustic guitar!
Click to expand...

I tried it once and said forget it. I thought it was complicated, though a bedroom probably isn't a good place to get a great acoustic sound, no matter how you mic it
 
Very cool - the singing is fine after the first verse when you seem to settle into it. I don't see a need for doubling but you can try it to see if you like it (I can never get it on the money so I avoid it). The harmonies are really really nice, being a big fan of the lift they give a song and they are well done and on the money. The acoustic recorded well - rich and full but don't take over the mix. The vocal level/effect is good too - it rides nicely at the top still within the mix.
I like the arrangement - taking things in and out gives it nice variety and colors it well. :D:D:D:D
 
mjbphotos said:
Tny suggestions on what to put in for an instrument to fill up the space between/into verses?
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Electric guitar / Ebow will get you interesting, cello-like, but real sounds... assuming you have an Ebow, that is
 
Armistice said:
Electric guitar / Ebow will get you interesting, cello-like, but real sounds... assuming you have an Ebow, that is
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Unfortunately, I don't have one. But I do know someone with one - lead guitarist for our once-a-year Beatles benefit band - but I won't see him for 2 weeks.
 
Personal preference, but I'd prefer to hear something a little more exciting than the cello down there. I think a slide guitar would suit it more. A slow slide part an octave higher than what the cello is doing.

Something like what the slide does in "Scar Tissue" by RHCP.
 
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^^^Just want to make sure you saw my edit there^^^^.

It's "Scar Tissue", not "Californation". Doesn't matter if you listen to it or not. I just was afraid you might have seen my post, played "Californication", heard no slide, and thought I was off my rocker. :D :eek:
 
I like this tune man. It's kinda outside the box. For some reason I really like it when you say ashes and trees. Puts a smile on the face. I also like the general strut that it has for the chorus. It's got personality.

The drum balance - you maybe could turn them up, but you could almost definitely turn down the rhythm acoustic guitar or cello and they would still be heard.

The vocals the are doubled in falsetto don't get decently in tune with each other until the end of the second line (of 4). It's like you took a bit to sync with each other and then once you did it was fine. The second time around you sync up a little quicker but the first line still seems off intonation-wise. After the solo the falsetto double again doesn't sync up rhythmically until the third line or intonation-wise until the last line.

Hope this helps!
 
Just to be clear about my thoughts on the drums. It's not so much the volume. Well, it is the volume, too. But to me it's just more a general need to give the drums a more attention and make them more "part of the song", as opposed to a placeholder.
 
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