Art Mp vs. Behr Mic200 preamps...

  • Thread starter Thread starter rynomig
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No offense taken...and of course, one can always be wrong. And while I disagree, my stance is based solely on gut feeling, which are so often misguided. Nevertheless, my gut feeling is that putting a fancy tube in the ART falls into the ol' category of "polishing a turd". I mean, the difference that makes can't *hardly* be nearly as dramatic as the effect caused by the crappy room you're recording in or the crappy instrument you're recording or the buses going by outside the window that get picked up by the crappy mic you're using to record your crappy guitar! We're not talking lab tests here. I place the tube in the ART so low on the totem pole of sonic obstacles in your average beginner's recording setup that farting around with it is a waste of time, not to mention the expense, of a fancy tube.
 
Sonic Idiot said:
I place the tube in the ART so low on the totem pole of sonic obstacles in your average beginner's recording setup that farting around with it is a waste of time, not to mention the expense, of a fancy tube.
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I bought a lot of 7 vintage tubes off eBay for $35. Then I tested all of them until I found the best one. The best one was MUCH better than the stock tube.

When you are done, you could resell the lot along with the new tube and you'd only be out shipping.

No, it's not the most important factor, but it does make a significant difference, and it's really easy and cheap.

Also, if you're recording direct, that tube becomes proportionally more significant to your signal chain.
 
Here's another vote for the Art TubeMP instead of the Behringer Mic200. I have both; I was given the Mic200 by a friend that didn't like it... I tried it and came to the same conclusion. As a side note, I've got several other pieces of Behringer gear (PMX-2000 & VX-2000 as examples) and really like them, so this isn't a "Behringer is stinko" sour grapes comment.

As others have said, the TubeMP makes a great DI, and I've used them on many instrument and vocal tracks in the past. If you buy a TubeMP, go easy on the input gain... this is where many people wind up cranking the input gain and get really dirty, gritty results, and conclude that the MP sucks... so go easy on the "Suck" button! ;) The TubeMP goes for around $40-$50 in this area.

And as many others have said, if you can squeeze your budget to $150, the M-Audio DMP3 two channel preamp may give you even better results... it's a clean, all SS preamp, which is clean by design.
 
Sonic Idiot said:
Nevertheless, my gut feeling is that putting a fancy tube in the ART falls into the ol' category of "polishing a turd". I mean, the difference that makes can't *hardly* be nearly as dramatic as the effect caused by the crappy room you're recording in or the crappy instrument you're recording or the buses going by outside the window that get picked up by the crappy mic you're using to record your crappy guitar! We're not talking lab tests here. I place the tube in the ART so low on the totem pole of sonic obstacles in your average beginner's recording setup that farting around with it is a waste of time, not to mention the expense, of a fancy tube.
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Amen! It does make a bit of difference, though. I replaced all the tubes in my lower end pre's with Ei tubes that are a clone of the Telefunken 12AX7 and it made a great difference in the higher frequencies and warmth.

You can't polish a turd, but if you wait until it dries and give it a few coats of Shellac, it can get quite shiny!!
 
PhilGood said:
You can't polish a turd, but if you wait until it dries and give it a few coats of Shellac, it can get quite shiny!!
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Quote of the day!!! :) :) :)
 
Tube swapping in starved plate gear generally does not yield as large a color change as would occur in a device where the tube was properly biased. Putting expensive tubes in starved plate gear can be a waste for that reason.

Bob
 
The time it takes you to F-around with the tube in your ART is the time you should spend with your instrument and writing good songs. We all only have so much energy to put towards this endevor...better to use it in crafting a sound worth capturing. A shiney turd is still a turd.

But to be specific to this thread, the idea that a new tube "significantly" improves the sound is overstated. It may change it..it may even actually "improve" it, whatever that means at the moment. But these inexpensive devices sent to us po' folk, by god, should be plugged in and worked and just do it and go and buy better things later.

Now, of course, I really am the sort who will take apart my crap and swap stuff out to see what happens. That's just my personality. But when I do that, I know it's not making things better (not usually, anyways). It's just making things different. It's just satisfying my curiosity.
 
Sonic Idiot said:
The time it takes you to F-around with the tube in your ART is the time you should spend with your instrument and writing good songs. We all only have so much energy to put towards this endevor...better to use it in crafting a sound worth capturing. A shiney turd is still a turd.
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Well, the difference between you and me is that I own this unit, and have made this mod, and carefully evaluated each of seven different tubes while taking notes. Therefore, I have actual facts on which to base my opinion.

I have also played bass & guitar for 19 years, so I can say with some certainty that the hour I spent evaluating tubes wasn't going to make a huge difference in my chops.

Besides, how do you think I evaluated the tubes? I WAS PLAYING MY BASS!!!

I also believe there's a lot of value for an aspiring recordist to learn how gear works, and swapping a tube is a pretty good way to start.

I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, too: rynomig, PM me your address, and I'll mail you a vintage GE 12AX7 that I've tested good completely free. Just let us know what you think of the difference.
 
I think I can spare 10 minutes of my rigorous songwriting/recording schedule to swap a tube. I honed my chops years ago!! Alot of people have testified on this forum how changing a simple tube can make something go from crappy to useful. If it didn't work, my ears would tell me so.

They haven't lied to me yet!
 
Bob's Mods said:
Putting expensive tubes in starved plate gear can be a waste for that reason.

Bob
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All the tubes I've put into the pre's cost less than $10 a piece. The only expensive tubes I use are for more expensive gear and tube mics.
 
Sonic Idiot,

I listened to a few of your mixes. They sound very good. You got to keep in mind though you only recorded relatively few tracks, one acoustic and some vocal tracks. If you tried to do a larger mix (full band), I think the problems with that gear would be become more apparent. For an MK319, if sounds rather full. Usually those mics are very dark in color.

You are right though, that MP and MK are workin for ya. The musical feel shines through no problem. Did you use a reverb plugin or is that natural room? Any EQ?

Bob
 
mshilarious said:
I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, too: rynomig, PM me your address, and I'll mail you a vintage GE 12AX7 that I've tested good completely free. Just let us know what you think of the difference.
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Dude, that is pretty cool of you. I tend to take talk about preamps with a grain of salt...cause usually there is a whole lot of talking with no results to back things up either way. Letting some one try to independently evaluate your experiences is cool!
 
Bob's Mods said:
Sonic Idiot,
You got to keep in mind though you only recorded relatively few tracks, one acoustic and some vocal tracks. If you tried to do a larger mix (full band), I think the problems with that gear would be become more apparent.
Bob
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Yeah, that is a reasonable premise. Yet, i've heard plenty of Ed Rei's stuff where this ART preamp is plastered across 20 plus tracks in full band arrangements. Nothing but excellent sound, suggesting that mic selection, quality instruments and performances, and skilled engineering where all WAY more important factors. Of course, this stuff is so subjective - even within this thread, the same sonic chararistics that make people like the ART box, make it undesirable for others. I can clearly hear the "grainy" sound footprint on Sonic Idiots acoustic stuff of an ART into the yellow/red leds - yet I think (and presumably others) it sounds great in that context. For others, that is a 'sucky' sound to avoid.
 
BobsMods: Thank you. It did work for me. I have better stuff now, though, and my experience with the ART has me made appreciate other things. I really learned that piece of gear, man. To another of your points: nobody limited to an ART is recording an orchestra...well, probably not, anyways. If that is all you can afford, my bet is you're not trying to do anything complicated.

And, yes, I used several free reverb plugins (SIR and freeverb and others) and the eq built into n-track.

mshilarious: now that offer is cool...very cool. Ill take you up on it! I fully admit that buying an ART in order to learn how to tweak gear is worthwhile. But for someone without that inclination, don't worry! It will work just fine for you out of the box, as is, as you learn and realize WHY better gear is better.
 
Sonic Idiot said:
mshilarious: now that offer is cool...very cool. Ill take you up on it! I fully admit that buying an ART in order to learn how to tweak gear is worthwhile. But for someone without that inclination, don't worry! It will work just fine for you out of the box, as is, as you learn and realize WHY better gear is better.
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SI: Very good point!! Anyone just starting out shouldn't fiddle with the gear.

Lesson one: Get inexpensive gear to learn on until you know what you're doing and why.

Lesson two: Don't void the warranty unless you know how to fix it yourself.

Lesson 3: Modify if it's the only way to improve sound on a budget or if you're a DIY kinda person. (pssst. changing tubes is easy. even a guitarist can do it.) :)

mshilarious, that's a lesson we should all learn. How to be magnanimous. Mangnaminus, magnamouse, magna-moose? Generous!!
 
not on the tube tip here.....

I also find the ART to be quite useful for Kick drum in some instances. I like it way better that the pres in my Allen and Heath Mixwizard here - perhaps its failings are virtues in this but when this guy works in this (admittedly narrow) application, it earns its low price quickly.

I don't like it as a bass DI only because it has no parallel out, and I almost always use an amp as well when tracking "keeper" bass parts.

- Ape
 
i kept forgetting to try it. i just swapped the sovtek out for an old baldwin that i got from a dude that hoarded them for his guitar amps.

took me 3 minutes.

i will check it out later to see if i notice any difference.

i use my tube mp as a bass di and i like it a lot. ive used modelers and products made for bass with digital effects and they sounded like crap to me. i couldnt wait to get rid of them.
 
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