Apex 460 capacitor change?

  • Thread starter Thread starter EdgeGuy
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Well, you could swap the two 1uF 450v for a couple 1uF 250v film caps. I still don't know where they are in the circuit, but I would imagine the one by the transformer is for audio output. The both could be import. Might as well replace them both. You could also try replacing the 10uF and 100uF with Black Gates. It certainly couldn't hurt.

The strange little "u" really isn't a u. It's the symbol for micro.
 
Thank`s!
Micro -I was just making sure to be understood :-)
It is bit tight because of the short body, let`s see what to do.
Matti
 
A little update: I completed all the mods, EXCEPT a capsule change, to my second mic. All the mods make a marked improvement, but it really lets you see how much of a difference the capsule makes in the final sound of the modded mic. If someone wants, I can make some audio files available that shows the difference between the stock capsule and the Peluso CK12.
 
YES! I WANT!!

I wanna be able to hear on different systems. Whenever I mod I do a poor job of recording the history of changes. I usually just do something and say "Hell, that sounds better" and just keep moving.

I really want to hear the CEK12.
 
OK, you want it you got it:
http://members.aol.com/mbrebes

apexgtr.mp3 - modded mic w/original capsule, big dreadnought guitar, about 1 ft., cardioid (12 o'clock).

apexchange.mp3 - modded mic w/original capsule, vocal and big dreadnought guitar, about 1 ft., cardioid (12 o'clock).

cek12gtr.mp3 - modded mic w/Peluso CEK12 capsule, big dreadnought guitar, about 1 ft., cardioid (12 o'clock).

cek12change.mp3 -modded mic w/Peluso CEK12 capsule, vocal and big dreadnought guitar, about 1 ft., cardioid (12 o'clock).

The mics had no real time to warm up except for a minute or two, so that can affect the tone a bit, but should still be okay for comparison since they both had similar warmup. All settings the same. Mic into 7th Circle Neve clone preamp, then into Motu 2408mk3 interface. No processing other than normalizing files. Mp3 encoding at 320kb.

My initial reaction to samples: Original capsule is more edgy, very pointed high mids. Peluso CEK capsule more open, rise in upper response is at a higher frequency, more depth in bass.
Hope that helps.
 
Well, I hear a big difference. The CEK12 is smoother and more forgiving. Not that the other capsule sounds that bad. It is definately edgier! The Peluso capsule is just even along the whole spectrum with a little sparkle in the top end.

How about samples compared to the other mics?
 
So now you want comparison files with my other mics! U87, M147, KMS105, AT4050, AT4060, AKG 414, AKG 451, SM7, Senn 441, Senn 421, EV RE20, Royer 121, RCA 77DX, and the list goes on..... I suppose you would like files of all of them? You probably want files with different mic preamps as well?
 
mbrebes said:
So now you want comparison files with my other mics! U87, M147, KMS105, AT4050, AT4060, AKG 414, AKG 451, SM7, Senn 441, Senn 421, EV RE20, Royer 121, RCA 77DX, and the list goes on..... I suppose you would like files of all of them? You probably want files with different mic preamps as well?
Click to expand...


Uuuuuuhhhhhh...No?

Sorry. Just wanted a sample or two to see how she stacks up. :o
 
mbrebes said:
So now you want comparison files with my other mics! U87, M147, KMS105, AT4050, AT4060, AKG 414, AKG 451, SM7, Senn 441, Senn 421, EV RE20, Royer 121, RCA 77DX, and the list goes on..... I suppose you would like files of all of them? You probably want files with different mic preamps as well?
Click to expand...

WAIT!!! You have all those mics and you bought an APEX 460???

What were you smoking when you clicked "buy"?????

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
Why did I buy an Apex 460 (well actually I bought the Nady TCM1150-same mic but only $185)? Well, I was thinking about getting a Peluso 22 47 or 22 251. The more investigating I did, the more similarities I found between the 22 251 and the Apex/Nady. Researching your thread and a number of others, I realized that I could "make" a Peluso 22 251 for much cheaper. Bought two mics, transformers, one CEK12, and other parts, then started modding and testing. Total cost per mic runs about $450, instead of $1250 for the Peluso 22 251. Which would you rather spend?

I also bought two Nady TCM1050's, which have the same circuitry but a body shape like a short U47 (Peluso 22 47). One has been modded like the Apex, except it has the Peluso CEK367 Neumann style capsule in it. Another good sound. The other one is getting fully modded to a U47 clone with EF14 tube and U47 style transformer.

If you would like to compare the Apex/CEK12 to two other mics, then choose two from the previous list and I'll post a vocal/guitar file of each.
 
mbrebes said:
The other one is getting fully modded to a U47 clone with EF14 tube and U47 style transformer.

If you would like to compare the Apex/CEK12 to two other mics, then choose two from the previous list and I'll post a vocal/guitar file of each.
Click to expand...

I am in the process of doing the same thing to an MXL 992. It already has the long body. It's not the same grill, but I'm ordering some wire cloth to rebuild the grill. I'm currently using the capsule from a Sony C38, but I don't think it will be the right match so I'll get a Peluso later. Already have the tube and circuit along with a Cinemag U47 transformer. Still have to build the power supply.

I'm interested in any files you can post.
 
How big is the output transformer inside the Apex460 mike ?

I was thinking of getting this mike and tweak it with a lundahl ? I don't know if the size of a lundahl will fit ?

Alan
 
So I'm in the process of modding the TCM1150
Tube: Mullard CV4024 (12AT7WA)
Capsule: CEK-89
Transformer: CM-2480
2xDiodes(D5,D6): 56v Zener
C8: Ansar 1uf 400v
C6: Black Gate 10uf 25v

I was wondering if changing any of the other components might have a positive impact. There's a couple other 1uf 400v electrolytics on the mic. C1 and C2.

And what about upgrading the electrolytics on the power supply? Having some cleaner power should help too, no?

Thanks!
 
OK , I realize the fever died out on this post but I've just looked over this schematic and may have some ideas for you.

C4 cange to something bigger to get WAY more low end such as .0047, .022, .047 uF
Swap tube to a JJ ecc 832 http://www.jj-electronic.sk/pdf/ECC 832.pdf
R8 change to 47K (maybe not as the transformer is lowering the ohmage here)
C8 doesn't need to be 450 V, whatever volts are at pin 8 now allow a bit higher part rating
R6 seems WAY to high thus try 4.7 Meg - 10 Meg to reduce noise floor


With the new tube you'll have alot of gain (100) but a better low impedance output that will give that opened headroom vibe. I know these are fairly radical suggestions but hey, i'm Canadian. They may work very well so try them out, carefully.
 
jehu said:
C4 cange to something bigger to get WAY more low end such as .0047, .022, .047 uF
Swap tube to a JJ ecc 832 http://www.jj-electronic.sk/pdf/ECC 832.pdf
R8 change to 47K (maybe not as the transformer is lowering the ohmage here)
C8 doesn't need to be 450 V, whatever volts are at pin 8 now allow a bit higher part rating
R6 seems WAY to high thus try 4.7 Meg - 10 Meg to reduce noise floor


With the new tube you'll have alot of gain (100) but a better low impedance output that will give that opened headroom vibe. I know these are fairly radical suggestions but hey, i'm Canadian. They may work very well so try them out, carefully.
Click to expand...
1. The 3dB point of the HPF is already set at 1Hz with the original values. Nothing gained.
2. The problem with your tube choice is that the gain is too high. That is why the 6072 was chosen over the 12AX7 that came in the mic, to lower the gain.
3. R8 is not going to make much difference. In my case, I removed the cathode follower which removes that part from the circuit.
4. Correct, C8 only needs to be rated at 200+VDC.
5. Dropping the value of R6 will increase the loading on the capsule, which is a capacitor and will cause detrimental frequency response loss.
 
Thought I'd bring this thread up again. I've read through it a couple times.
I bought a Nady TCM 1150 with the intend of fully upgrading it.

But I'm having a hard time making a decision between the Peluso AKG capsule and the U47ish capsule.

It sure would be super awesome if someone who's done both could post a couple samples of acoustic guitar or something. I know there's been one of the CEK12. Anyway, I think all of us would love to hear more.

Also, what do you guys think about removing C6, C7, C9, and C10?
Apparently you would need a different transformer than the Cinemag. I tried to buy one of the ones Dave Thomas is using for his current mics (Japanese made, model number BV11,) but he's stopped emailing me, so I guess I either need to source this transformer from Peluso (who uses it too) or use the Cinemag, which would not allow the removal of (C9 and C10?)

Anyway, other than increasing the uF value of C8, are you guys changing any other values of caps? Or just replacing with more quality stuff like Black Gates.

Sorry, a million questions. I'd like to keep this thread going though. If there is someone that has their microphone so pimped out that they think it's perfect, it would be cool to get a list of all the mods on one page.

Thanks, this is going to be fun me thinks.

Edit: Oh, one more thing. For those of you that changed out the values of the diodes in the power supply, are you then using a higher voltage tube because the voltage is lower coming from the power supply?
 
C9 and C10 do not need to be there because of specific transformers. They are there mainly for RF reduction. I have removed them on mine, which do have Cinemag transformers. Removing C6 and C7 will drop the gain.
 
Thanks mbrebes!

So in this thread someone said the CEK347 capsule sounds close to a U87, and the CEK12 capsule sounds closer to a 414. In that regard, I'm inclined to go with a CEK12 capsule because I've found 414's way more usable than u87's in the past. Then again, I tried a 414 recently (BUL/S) that I thought was very murky. I guess I should ask which 414 does the original poster think the CEK12 capsule sounds like?

Strange comparisons anyway, since we're dealing with a tube mic, but my Soundelux U195 sounds very tubey to me, so why not the other way around?

It may sound wierd to some people but what I don't want is a mic that sounds like a U87. So I may end up getting the CEK12 capsule. But I'm on the fence. If someone posted and said that's crazy, it sounds much closer to a U47, well that might change my mind.

But anyway, anybody have a sample of the 460 with a CEK347 capsule?
 
The 414 would have a pretty different sound than a 460 with CEK-12 capsule. The CEK-12 capsule in the 460 would probably be closer in sound to a C12 than 414. This is due to the body and grill design, one of the MAJOR factors influencing the sound of a microphone.
 
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