Apex 460 capacitor change?

  • Thread starter Thread starter EdgeGuy
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craigmorris74 said:
I've got a Apex 460 with a stock circuit with capsule (CE
k-367), capacitor, tube (EH 6072A/12AY7EH) and transformer (cinemag) upgrades. C8 has been removed from the circuit as well. Believe it or not, the only mod I haven't tried is the grill mesh mod. I look up in there and there appears to be 3 layers of grill, but they are soldered together. Is that what you guy's mics looked like. If so, any recommedations on how to get this out without messing things up?

BTW, this mic is definitely on the oppopsite end of the spectrum of my AT 4047, which seems to me closer to a ribbon mic. The modded apex has plenty of air in the high end. Maybe a bit too much for sources that already has it.
Click to expand...

Removing the inner 2 layers is a bit of a trick. You have to pry up the 1st layer, with a really small screwdriver, out from under the lip around the bottom of the grill housing. Then you can pull and twist it out with a needle nose pliers. The outer layer is soldered to the housing, so it's just a matter of snapping or cutting the wires out of the 'weld'. The top is a little harder. I used the smallest jewelers screwdriver I had to push the inner two layers down from the outside by going in between the wires of the outer layer.
 
This mic is sounding good. Good for voice. 12AX7 in there. I can't understand how the 6072a tube is so 'killer' because the gain is so low, the mic is unusable with that tube unless you are screaming into it all the time. It's got some noise though. Compared to solid state condensers, it's about 6db too much noise. 5751 is good also for less gain, but 6072.... no!
I guess if you were singing into it it would be fine. For Voice Overs, you would want to be right on it. Would be good for re-amping some cabs........
 
If you are using the Apex 460 website schematic you need C8 it "blocks" DC from the output transformer the current that flows effects the transformer in a not good for sound way.

Something is wrong with the microphone if you don't have good output with the 6072a/12ay7

Change the capsule back to the stock one with the 6072a

The posts sound like people do not understand what is going on in a tube microphone and are just doing stuff to the microphones.

uf 10^-6 .00000x F
pf 10^-12
nf 10^-9
 
Gus, I have a 1uf350V cap on C8. I'm comparing this mike to a Schoeps Cardiod small diaphram solid state condenser. A $3,000 mic. All my tests are with the Apex 460 on cardiod, the noise is reduced switching over to figure 8.
Send an e-mail to

brooksharrington@hotmail.com

and I will send two 2.6 MB mono files. AIFF48k16bit.

1 is Schoeps
other is Apex 460 with Cinemag transformer, Peluso 367 capsule.

This Capsule is way better than stock. I'm not going back!!!
 
black gate!

PhilGood said:
OK. I installed the CAD E-350 capsule and noticed things are much smoother and more present. The midrange is there where it seemed scooped before. The mic has more of the 3D quality. The highs aren't as brittle and are actually quite silky. I did notice also that the gain seemed lower than before. I compared it to my Royer MA-200 style DIY mic, which has always sounded fantastic. I decided to try an Ei 12AX7 tube, which is a copy of a Telefunken smooth grey plate. Gain was better, but something was wrong. No bass. Tried another of the same make. THAT was the ticket!! Gain is right up there and the bass became HUGE. Not muddy huge either. Tight huge! Will have to let it burn in and then do some tests.

Made me sound like one of the guys with a deep voice who does movie trailers. I haven't done the tranny change or the C24 mod yet and my black gates are on back-order. I now wonder if I really need to do anything else.
Click to expand...

Did you ever order the Ansar 3.3?
My Ansar 1.0 opened up in the bass and sounds great. I also want to try Illinois Capacitor's stuff because it gets high marks and is the smallest polypropylene caps I could find - but they won't return my order request's. Too small to bother with. Will keep pestering.

I ordered the Black Gates from parts express. If there on back order it is going to be a long wait. Black Gate is out of business.

Once again, No China. :(
I will again explain to my boss the importance of China.

My 460 sounds very good. Highly colored in a good way. Lots of personality.
When I can get the rest of the parts from Illinois Capacitor I will update you.
 
My mic doesn't have as much bass either. I've got a 1uf350V cap in C8 and I'm thinking about going to maybe 2.2uf or ?

I also did the mod Marik suggested, removing R8 and running C8 to tube pin 1. I think this has reduced the gain, almost requiring the 12AX7, and I'm going to go back to stock wiring except for C9 and C10. Leaving those off.
 
I really have no issues with the 6072A. I just thought I would try the 12AX7 for shits & giggles and was surprized by the bass. I will probably go back to the 6072A because it will give the mic about 8db more headroom. The highs are very fuzzy with the 12AX7. Seems more flat with 6072A.

I have not ordered the Ansar 3.3uF as I have plenty of low end. If I want to open it more I have a 2.2uF polypropylene to use. I've seen how close they are on a scope and they are linear enough for me. I just want the blackgate to elimenate that last crappy electrolytic.

That inferior capsule is not going back in my mic! I still have the standard circuit and have only upgraded capsule, capacitors and the grill. I have a very good sounding mic!

Next up: Trafo!
 
Regarding comparing a Shoeps solid state and an Apex tube circuit, it has been my experience that you will never be able to get a tube circuit to rival the noise specs of a solid state circuit. I have never seen someone go to a tube mic when they are worried about noise or gain. You are just fooling yourself if you think that the comparison is valid or justifiable.
 
True. I'm using the Schoeps because it's the mic I go to get stuff done that will sound good. I do a fair amount of helping students at a college. I don't know what or who they want to record. It's always last minute.. and lets hurry up and get it done. This mic sounds good on just about anything. I'm comparing the sound quality, not the noise floor. That's secondary.
 
C4 and C7

Hi ya'll.

I just got back from a long trip. (not China :( )
The parts from Illinois Capacitor .001 and .1 where waiting for me (more to come).
Put in C4 (.001uf)and the difference was slight but welcomed. Removed some grain. I felt I could hear better what the capsule was doing.
Then put in C7 (.1uf) and again the difference was slight but welcomed. The mic's testicles have dropped and I am happy to report that it is male. The mic has an authority it didn't have before. I'm hoping the rest of the parts will endow my mic with wisdom :rolleyes: .

Really, I am ordering another 460 because at this point I find it's highly colorful presentation to be very useful for some things. Plus I could then test it in stereo.

I have ordered a new C8 (Illinois Capacitor 1uf) to see if a cheaper part can replace the Anser.
 
Remember I said it was discussed on other forums that the Peluso CEK12 was just edge terminated K67 style backplates? Now I'm not too sure those people knew what they were saying! I just saw a CEK12 capsule advertized on ebay and it showed several side shots.

It's more like a real CK12 than I thought! It's not the right thickness, but the backplates are obviously smaller brass disks centered inside plastic. That's the only way to edge terminate it without the retainer screws shorting the diaphragm. Maybe John DOES have the disks drilled like a CK12 after all!

Sure wish I could find out for certain, but he's very short with email replys so I hate asking him questions. I am tempted now more than ever to buy one.
 
My CEK-367 is sounding really good. Capsule made the biggest difference. I ordered the Ansar 1uf400v cap for C8 and it'll be here tomorrow. $15 turns into $25 after shipping.They must have sent it on horseback. I'm also going to wire it back to stock, as I think there will be more gain , letting me run a 12ATY or 6072.
I'm gonna look around at some stores here in L.A. and try and pick up 2 Apex 460s cheap, maybe some returns from unhappy customers, and turn them into CEK-12 matched pair. Well, maybe not today, but maybe........
I talked to Peluso on the phone, very friendly. Asked if the capsule were pre-tested. yup. I enjoy hearing about the cap changes.

Brooks
 
I found that the Nady TCM1150's were cheaper than the Apex 460's. Same mic and body. I got the Nady's for $185 each over the internet. For the Peluso CEK367 (Neumann style) capsule, I used the Nady TCM1050's, which have a bigger body, same size as Peluso's 2247, and it also comes with a case, for about $220.
 
Last Post re: 460

O.K. This is my last post regarding the 460.
I got some Illinois Capacitor parts and put them in.
These are film caps made in the U.S.

C8 ........what happened to the high end?
I gave it some time.
Two days later and it still sucks.

Went back to the Anser and was happy again.
Sorry...It's 15 bucks, but it really works in that position.

Replaced a couple of others with no change.
I'm done.....or rather this mic is done.

It sounds really good like it is, for what it is.
This was my first try at moding a mic and it was fun.

I ended up learning a lot and getting a much better mic than what I started with. The upgrade cost was about $50.
Since I have 2 of every part I will make a stereo pair of the 460.
After this I will never buy another 460 again because it is wonderfully but wildly colored and I have enough "red".

I don't want to improve this mic because I need "red".
Do you understand?
Am I alone in thinking like this?

So here is my revue of the moded 460.
Male vocals have an aliveness which isn't strident at all yet cuts like nothing else. It is sensitive to proximity effect but the treble goes up , the bass is still a little lacking. Singers who "play" the mic get the best result's , not surprising. But in lesser hands it is a little unforgiving. Best results are keep outside of 3" with a pop filter -- you can't go wrong. 6" and out the mic becomes smooth as can be and really warm. Even with the slight lack of bass.
This tells me its not the bass which is creating the warmth in this mic but the tube. Or whatever. Just not the bass. Or maybe.
You like my revue so far?

On female vocals this mic reacts a little different.
Stay 3" away and above and you are in liquid heaven.
Come in closer and it just sounds closer.
I can't make a female voice sound bad with this thing.

This is why I think a stereo pair would make great overheads.
I could be wrong but it's cheap to find out.
I still really like the 460 on brass and all types of guitar.
Christ, for the money this fucking mic rocks moded.
It can be unusable in stock form.

I took the time to record every small change I made along the way so I could really judge the changes.

Conclusion....... Get a good tube.......change C8 with the Anser.........remove the two inner mesh things (just rip them out with pliers).......change C6 with the Black Gate.............Done.
If you want a better mic............Get a better mic.
If you have a bunch of mic's like me and need a present yet smooth mic, mod the 460.
It's a keeper.

Bobby.
 
But you never changed the capsules, right? To me that has made the biggest improvement. I'd say a 50% improvement! That's pretty dramatic.

Look into capsules at some point. When you get quality ones, the mic will jump into a new realm!
 
What Phil said. Capsule change results in a more expensive sound.
I'm to the point right now that I'm tired of looking at these circuit boards and thinking about wiring the mic up without the boards. I need more room in there for the bigger C8 cap.
 
Well, I'm a failure. I took everything off the boards and rewired without the boards, and it's dead. It's looking like it's wired right, but messy, with mulitple grounds all over the place. Now I have a good looking shell and a capsule that hopefully still works. I'm thinking I messed with it so much I have need to start from scratch. With one large project board with a new socket one one side and the rest on the other. Anyone now where to get those resistors and parts? Any ideas are welcome.
 
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