Apex 460 capacitor change?

  • Thread starter Thread starter EdgeGuy
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Brooks said:
PhilGood, I'm doing the electronic mods before I do the Capsule....saving it for last. I'm going to put in a CEK-367..... I'm not looking for a flat sound. Trying to make it good for Voice Overs.

While testing the mic in various stages of mods, (I test after every mod, just to make sure I'm getting it right) I have noticed this dynamic thing going on... sort of a bit of compression. I'm always comparing it to our Schoeps with cardiod capsule, as that is the best and flatest we've got. Apex right now is more usable for VO than AKG414, as that sounds too flat for voice, right in the mids. Anyway, I notice a difference in dynamics while testing side by side with these other two condenser mics. The transformer change has taken care of some of it, and I'm thinking Marik suggestions a few pages back may be a further improvement. OR.... maybe it's just a tube mic, that has it's own dynamics. I'm going to try and attach a pic of what I've got so far.
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BROOKS!! I remember you!!!

You PM'd me with your modded mic before! VERY nice indeed!

If the dynamic thing you are talking about sounds like compression, then that's the right word for it. Tubes add natural compression that solid state mics don't have. It's the nature of tubes. Whereas the transformer being better can fix it, better components will get a purer signal to the tube and therefore the compression will be heard more. I get it too! It's like singing soft is the same as singing medium. That's a tube fer ya!
 
PhilGood said:
Other way around. 1000pF is .001uF

Pico Farads! Pico is one billion. u means micro. micro is 1000. (actually it's not a u, that's just the only character that looks close.)

No, I think 250v is fine. Like I said, the power supply only puts out 200v WITHOUT load. Under load it's more like 125v.

I'll need to look at the schematic again, but I'm not home right now.

Maybe Marik is out there somewhere....

Marik???
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Self edit: Pico means one trillionth of a farad.

Nano means one billionth!

1uF is one microfarad = .001F. Forgot the automatic zeros caused by the u!

Don't want to cause confusion!

Whoops!
 
confused

PhilGood said:
Self edit: Pico means one trillionth of a farad.

Nano means one billionth!

1uF is one microfarad = .001F. Forgot the automatic zeros caused by the u!

Don't want to cause confusion!

Whoops!
Click to expand...

So 1000p still = .001uf.........
 
Marik tube pinout mod is done. Must take to soundroom for good listening test, but it's working.. Also removed C9, C10 and extra wiring.
 
Brooks said:
Marik tube pinout mod is done. Must take to soundroom for good listening test, but it's working.. Also removed C9, C10 and extra wiring.
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WELL??????? :confused: :D
 
Well, ya, ok....... Tried a 6072a tube. Nice tonal quality. But the noise floor is too high. Needs more gain. Then tried a GE JAN 5751 and it's really usable.
mic is sounding pretty good. But, I'm probably not being fair. Everytime I do a test, I'm tracking an extra channel with a Schoeps collete cardiod. Tonality wise, they are very,very close, with the Schoeps being a little clearer, and having a quieter noise floor. Also compared waveforms on a Waves PAZ plugin. Very similar. A little more noise floor around 2k on the Apex were you are the most sensitive to this noise. Also some difference around 4-5k and around 11k, but slight.
I had a black male doing voice for this test. Good voice.
I'm thinking about going back to the 12ATY.... or,... I need a tube with just a bit more gain than the 5751. The 12ATY seems to compress a little, like it was crunching the tube too much. 5751 doesn't, and allows a more realistic dynamic range.
CEK-367 came in the mail. This might do it. I'll but it in this weekend.
 
How much of a change did you notice after the circuit mod?

Was it any better/different?
 
I have an Apex 460 and would love to mod it (I have already thrown a NOS tube into it, which greatly improved the tone), but I am not technical at all when it comes to this sort of stuff and would likely destroy the mic - does anyone here know of any folks that will mod Apexes for a reasonable fee?

Thanks,
Chris
 
indravayu said:
I have an Apex 460 and would love to mod it (I have already thrown a NOS tube into it, which greatly improved the tone), but I am not technical at all when it comes to this sort of stuff and would likely destroy the mic - does anyone here know of any folks that will mod Apexes for a reasonable fee?

Thanks,
Chris
Click to expand...


Dave Thomas at DTR Advanced Audio

drthomas@telus.net

(hope he doesn't mind me posting his email, but I can't imagine he wouldn't want the business. He has posted it himself at other forums)
 
Trying to judge it against a totally different mic isn't going to give you a very realistic model to gauge the various mods. What I did was started modding one mic and had a second that I left totally stock. That way I could really understand what each mod was doing.

Well, that CEK367 will definitely push the sound over into the Neumann, rather than AKG/eLAM, side of things. I did that with a Nady and found that the tonal differences between the different tubes weren't as drastic with that capsule versus the CEK12.
 
Phil...Gooood! The test before the circuit mod was with a 12ATY. After Marik's Circuit mod I tested with 6072 and 5751, but not the 12ATY. Seemed like a little less bass, but more accurate. Also the noise floor, even though it didn't seem to be less of it, depending on which tube I used, was smoother. That's the way it was looking on the waveform on the computer anyway. I guess, even though it still had noise, probably at the same level, it was like a softer more pleasant kind of noise, instead of a grainy noise. Well,... this is my opinion anyway. I'm gonna put that 34mm capsule in. It's a little bigger that what's in there now, and I my have to get the mill file out and open up the slot in the grill bottom to get it in there. I'm also going to put a small round piece of black foam inside the grill around the mounting base to cover the flat surface where the capsule mount screws on. BTW, I also got the 34mm mount from peluso. After, this... I'm done. I started this about a year ago, and the grill mod was the first mod I did. Not because I wanted to, but because I broke the original grill apart. You see, I was looking at the Telefunken website and looked at their M16 ($1499) and noticed the screw-on fitting at the bottom of the mic was all shiney. So I took my bottom fitting to the buffing wheel at work and buffed it out. Came out nice. Then looked at their grills, and it looked like they buffed those off too. So...... I took my grill to the buffing wheel, and I got a little too relaxed while buffing it, and the grill got caught up in the buffing wheel and shot across the room and broke apart! oops! Noticed that the Apex grill was just painted and could'nt be buffed out anyway, was just soft bronze. Making that new grill was the biggest PITA of all the mods! Did that last June. Apex at that time didn't have a schematic online yet. Did the cap mods, used it a couple of times. Now, there are more mods online, and I thank everybody for this. I really like finding out what others have done.
10 years ago, messing around with a tube mic would not be possible, because of the cost. I bought the thing, with the thought that if I screw it up, well..... that's that.
 
PhilGood said:
Dave Thomas at DTR Advanced Audio

drthomas@telus.net

(hope he doesn't mind me posting his email, but I can't imagine he wouldn't want the business. He has posted it himself at other forums)
Click to expand...

Thanks - I really appreciate the info!!! :)

- Chris
 
mbrebes said:
Trying to judge it against a totally different mic isn't going to give you a very realistic model to gauge the various mods. What I did was started modding one mic and had a second that I left totally stock. That way I could really understand what each mod was doing.

Well, that CEK367 will definitely push the sound over into the Neumann, rather than AKG/eLAM, side of things. I did that with a Nady and found that the tonal differences between the different tubes weren't as drastic with that capsule versus the CEK12.
Click to expand...

Since there is such an obvious difference in the CEK367 and CEK12, I think I'm going to order a CEK12 for my Ela M clone and get it closer to a real one. All my LDC's are starting to be on the Neumann side and I need some variety.
 
I've got a Apex 460 with a stock circuit with capsule (CE
k-367), capacitor, tube (EH 6072A/12AY7EH) and transformer (cinemag) upgrades. C8 has been removed from the circuit as well. Believe it or not, the only mod I haven't tried is the grill mesh mod. I look up in there and there appears to be 3 layers of grill, but they are soldered together. Is that what you guy's mics looked like. If so, any recommedations on how to get this out without messing things up?

BTW, this mic is definitely on the oppopsite end of the spectrum of my AT 4047, which seems to me closer to a ribbon mic. The modded apex has plenty of air in the high end. Maybe a bit too much for sources that already has it.
 
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That's not solder, it's some kind of spot welding. The best you can do without rebuilding the whole grill is get in there carefully with some small long nose cutters and cut the inner grill out. I rebuilt mine, big PITA. I had to use a Dremel tool to grind down the tack welds after I cut off the mesh. The stock grill is 3 layers. Middle layer is fine. Two outers are thicker, and all of it is really soft bronze.
 
OK, i put the CEK-367 in and got it working. I'm listening to it and a AT3035 on headphones. No soundroom test till monday. Seems like the new capsule has less gain. !2ATY is unusable, I think gain is too low. 5751 is pretty good, so I put in a EH12AX7, what the heck. AT3035 sounds a little hollow compared about 8 in, away.
 
Don't bother with the 34mm capsule mount from Peluso. I didn't use it. It was 1/8 in. higher than the Apex 32mm mount. I reworked the 4 mounting holes and re-radius the plastic to fit the Peluso Capsule. Peluso mount came with 2 mounting holes for the capsule. Gain has changed again from this mod. Needs more preamp gain, That's why I but the 12AX7 in.
 
C8?

craigmorris74 said:
I've got a Apex 460 with a stock circuit with capsule (CE
k-367), capacitor, tube (EH 6072A/12AY7EH) and transformer (cinemag) upgrades. C8 has been removed from the circuit as well. Believe it or not, the only mod I haven't tried is the grill mesh mod. I look up in there and there appears to be 3 layers of grill, but they are soldered together. Is that what you guy's mics looked like. If so, any recommedations on how to get this out without messing things up?

BTW, this mic is definitely on the oppopsite end of the spectrum of my AT 4047, which seems to me closer to a ribbon mic. The modded apex has plenty of air in the high end. Maybe a bit too much for sources that already has it.
Click to expand...

Did you really remove C8?
Did you mean C9-C10?
Maby something else?
Here is the schamatic. http://www.apexelectronics.com/index.php?tmp=13&id= - drop down menu -- apex 460.
 
OK. I installed the CAD E-350 capsule and noticed things are much smoother and more present. The midrange is there where it seemed scooped before. The mic has more of the 3D quality. The highs aren't as brittle and are actually quite silky. I did notice also that the gain seemed lower than before. I compared it to my Royer MA-200 style DIY mic, which has always sounded fantastic. I decided to try an Ei 12AX7 tube, which is a copy of a Telefunken smooth grey plate. Gain was better, but something was wrong. No bass. Tried another of the same make. THAT was the ticket!! Gain is right up there and the bass became HUGE. Not muddy huge either. Tight huge! Will have to let it burn in and then do some tests.

Made me sound like one of the guys with a deep voice who does movie trailers. I haven't done the tranny change or the C24 mod yet and my black gates are on back-order. I now wonder if I really need to do anything else.
 
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