Apex 460 capacitor change?

  • Thread starter Thread starter EdgeGuy
  • Start date Start date
mamm7215 said:
Ok, first, install the cinemag 2480 transformer. Don't cut out/rewire anything else. Record something before/after this mod for reference. Now cut out C9-C10. They're just rf caps and the new transformer makes them pointless. At this point, removing the CF circuit you may/may not want to do. I didn't and I like the mic just the way it is now. I also have the CEK-12 capsule. Also, you need to put in a 6072a tube. That'll make a great difference as well. I had bad luck with some other 12ax7 types, not good sounding. I used an RCA NOS 6072a and it's awesome. The .68 mylar should sound a bit better than the stock electrolytic (less grainy).
At this point, not having done the CF mod, your mic should be better than almost anything you can get for 5X the price (better being subjective).
Click to expand...
Hey thanks for the tip. I installed the transformer last night. I'd forgotten to mention that i'd already put a 6072a tube in. (I'm not sure of the make, I bought it off the same folks i got the capsule from. I think it was deemed microphone grade by john peluso).
Anyhow, I do indeed notice a great improvement with the new transformer. The only other condensers i have are a c414b-tlII, a studio projects B3, and a AT4047fet.
The 460 now sounds oddly similar to the 414 in some respects. It makes the B3 sound like a telephone comparatively.
I haven't yet made any changes to the circuit. I do notice a slight graininess especially when compared to the 414, so i'm quite sure I'd like to change c8. Do c9 and c10 affect the sound?
With my very humble mic closet and limited experience, i feel it would be a good idea to get it as close to the c-12 as possible so i could apply the app notes i've read about c-12.
thanks again for great tips.
 
PhilGood said:
Let's see, use a .68uF cap that you already have, or spring $1.50 for a 1uF 250v that will give you extended low frequency?

That's entirely up to you.:)
Click to expand...
touché!
Montreal kinda sucks for buying components locally.
Would any old 1uf 250v mylar cap be more faithful to the half-of-a-c24-circuit that i'm going for than what i've got?
cheers,
Pete
 
C9-C10 cut out won't affect the sound at all, they're just rf filtering caps, made redundant by the new cinemag transformer
 
aha, so would that be kinda like a mod for purists? i do live uncomfortably close to a Greek language radio transmitter (about 3 blocks), if that's at all relevant.
(this c9, c10 business was one of my main points of confusion).
 
No, rf filtering for close sources ie: power cables and interference from nearby speakers and internal electronics, etc. Radio towers 3 blocks away wouldn't likely be an issue...
Snip them out, you can always put them back in if there's a problem...
 
Just a bump to ask how everyone with a modded 460 is liking their mics after having them for a while (this thread is almost 2 years old now)?
Does the love last more than a year? Have you found it to be a good all-around-er? Anything you particularly liked/disliked it on?

(also, thanks for the clarification about c9 and c10)
 
I've found mine to be very useful. I actually had a friend buy one off of me and uses it frequently. I purchased an AKG teflon C12 capsule and put it in the remaining one and it's a great mic for high background vocals. Has a very pop sound. I think it's good for pop vocals in general. I have other mics that I built that sound much better on male vocals though.
 
I have 3 mics that cover everything I do. Studio Projects C1, modded 460 and a 57.
Everything else is in the box one way or another.
 
Hey, I went through with the upgrades.
I opted to put the .68/250v mylar in c8 (rather tricky getting that to fit); remove the cathode follower; cut c9 and c10 (plus i had already cut out the head basket mesh, put in a 6072a tube, installed a cek12 capsule and a cinemag 2480 transformer).

I'm thoroughly impressed and ready to stop messing with it at this point. I've tried it on acoustic guitar, male and female vocals. It's clearer, brighter and generally more hi-fi than before. I've also noticed the output level is slightly lower.
 
PhilGood said:
I have other mics that I built that sound much better on male vocals though.
Click to expand...

Something I'd expect, as the Teflon CK12 is not exactly the capsule for that application.

ethyrvalve said:
Hey, I went through with the upgrades.
I opted to put the .68/250v mylar in c8 (rather tricky getting that to fit); remove the cathode follower; cut c9 and c10 (plus i had already cut out the head basket mesh, put in a 6072a tube, installed a cek12 capsule and a cinemag 2480 transformer).

I'm thoroughly impressed and ready to stop messing with it at this point. I've tried it on acoustic guitar, male and female vocals. It's clearer, brighter and generally more hi-fi than before. I've also noticed the output level is slightly lower.
Click to expand...


The clear, bright, and HiFi sound is most likely due to the 2480 Hi Ni core. In a few days I am getting one of Oliver's transformers and very interested to compare those.
 
Last edited:
Marik said:
Something I'd expect, as the Teflon CK12 is not exactly the capsule for that application.
Click to expand...

No it is NOT! Although I used it for higher pitched male backing vocals (myself) and liked the way it turned out. It is a great capsule for acoustic instruments though!:)

If I could get my hands on a brass CK12 I'd be in heaven.




Marik said:
The clear, bright, and HiFi sound is most likely due to the 2480 Hi Ni core. In a few days I am getting one of Oliver's transformers and very interested to compare those.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I can't remember which forum I was on, but one fellow posted samples of two Royer modded MXL 2001's. One had the 5840 tube and a Jensen transformer. The other had a 6205 tube with a Cinemag 2480. The 6205/Cinemag sounded a little woolier than the 5840/Jensen combo, which was a bit brighter. Neither was bad, just different. I liked them both, but to me the Jensen sounded more HiFi. The Cinemag sounded a tad colored, but in a good way.

That could also be attributed to the differing gain factors of the tubes, though. Could also be the QC of the 2001's capsules as well.
 
No indeed, or AMI -just asking if someone uses Lundahls
in these mics and the impressions thereoff

Matti
 
I do seem to recall someone on some post somewhere (maybe prodigy pro??) who did one of these mics (or another maker's clone) using Lundahl. Sorry I don't have more details.
 
ittam said:
No indeed, or AMI -just asking if someone uses Lundahls
in these mics and the impressions thereoff

Matti
Click to expand...


I used Lundahls in those mics. They are the most HiFi--very neutral, with no any hypes, very clean and clear--maybe the least colored transformers I ever seen.
If you are looking for those qualities in a mic, then it is for you.
 
Thank´s!
I´m worried about the 1:5 ( in 460 type mic) ratio of the most used Lundhall,
by quesswork I would opt for 1:7 or similiar but uneducated as I am
I´ll have to ask from here

Regards
Matti
 
PhilGood said:
Interesting. I can't remember which forum I was on, but one fellow posted samples of two Royer modded MXL 2001's. One had the 5840 tube and a Jensen transformer. The other had a 6205 tube with a Cinemag 2480. The 6205/Cinemag sounded a little woolier than the 5840/Jensen combo, which was a bit brighter. Neither was bad, just different. I liked them both, but to me the Jensen sounded more HiFi. The Cinemag sounded a tad colored, but in a good way.

That could also be attributed to the differing gain factors of the tubes, though. Could also be the QC of the 2001's capsules as well.
Click to expand...

The QC of 2001 (i.e. 32mm) capsules is pretty consistent. I am not familiar with 6205 (and could not find triode data), but the tube itself could be more than enough to make a huge difference (even the same type, but different brand, as we all know). This is not a fair test.

Best, M
 
Marik said:
The QC of 2001 (i.e. 32mm) capsules is pretty consistent. I am not familiar with 6205 (and could not find triode data), but the tube itself could be more than enough to make a huge difference (even the same type, but different brand, as we all know). This is not a fair test.

Best, M
Click to expand...

6205 is a pentode, like 5840. From what I understand, Even though the 5840 and 6205 tubes are very similar in specifications (with the exception of the third grid being internally wired to the cathode) the 5840 has a gain factor of 22 (similar to the VF14's gain factor, 17-20), whereas the gain factor of the 6205 has a gain factor of 50. Somewhat near the 12AY7's gain factor of 45. Might saturate the transformer a bit sooner.
 
Last edited:
Can anyone tell me what the stock cap for C4 is on the 460? I ordered one but don't have it yet and I am trying to decide what parts to source. From reading similar threads I found one reference to a ceramic there, one reference to a polystyrene (which is what I want to use there) already in place, and in the comparison shots between the M16 and 460 i see NO cap installed at C4.

Thanks!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top