Slackmaster2K
Gone
I will say this as a former POD lover.
There will come a point when your recordings start to take on life. Things will start to jump out at you and you'll start to become very excited about the potential of your recordings. Even the commercial music that you've aways listened to will start to sound more detailed and interesting.
It will be at this point that you understand the weakness of a POD as an "end all" recording solution. The POD is dirty, poorly EQ'd, has horrible effects, and is VERY VERY VERY edgy. Somewhere somebody got the idea that a "tube" sound was the crappy lower-midrange boomy shit that comes from the POD and various other wonder boxes.
You will find yourself tweeking more than adjusting....and the sounds you want are probably not in there.
The POD is a great short-term solution if you can't do it the right way. If you spend money on accessories like the footswitch you are foolish.
My tips: never use the POD's reverb. It sucks ass. Never use the POD's effects unless you have to. If you do use the POD's effects, access them with the sounddiver software. Try to avoid the POD for clean sounds. For heavy sounds, it's cool to run the POD into an amplifier and mic the amplifier. Mixing the amplifier sound with the raw POD sound can be cool, but usually you'll get weird phasing effects. Always layer the POD sounds unless you plan on burying the part. The POD is better for solos than rhythm. The POD's outputs are balanced, keep this in mind.
Slackmaster 2000
There will come a point when your recordings start to take on life. Things will start to jump out at you and you'll start to become very excited about the potential of your recordings. Even the commercial music that you've aways listened to will start to sound more detailed and interesting.
It will be at this point that you understand the weakness of a POD as an "end all" recording solution. The POD is dirty, poorly EQ'd, has horrible effects, and is VERY VERY VERY edgy. Somewhere somebody got the idea that a "tube" sound was the crappy lower-midrange boomy shit that comes from the POD and various other wonder boxes.
You will find yourself tweeking more than adjusting....and the sounds you want are probably not in there.
The POD is a great short-term solution if you can't do it the right way. If you spend money on accessories like the footswitch you are foolish.
My tips: never use the POD's reverb. It sucks ass. Never use the POD's effects unless you have to. If you do use the POD's effects, access them with the sounddiver software. Try to avoid the POD for clean sounds. For heavy sounds, it's cool to run the POD into an amplifier and mic the amplifier. Mixing the amplifier sound with the raw POD sound can be cool, but usually you'll get weird phasing effects. Always layer the POD sounds unless you plan on burying the part. The POD is better for solos than rhythm. The POD's outputs are balanced, keep this in mind.
Slackmaster 2000
E
Emeric
New member
POD is just a tool. I've always though of everything as a tool, electric guitar is a tool, bass is a .. etc.
If you are a 'former POD lover', I don't really understand. It's just another tool. It may work or it may not. Use a 1/2" or a 9/16ths wrench on you lawn mower. Which will work best?
That's a bad comparison. heheh, But I had to hunt around for a wrench today.
I have to disagree with you on 'not using the reverb or effects'. Who is to judge what will work? I guess if you have something better after the fact than that's good.
I do agree that the POD does do well for solo's. I like the 'freedom' of using the pod to work out solo's in a distorted context, without being drowned out by a guitar amplifier over my headphones(one room). I find it too be great in a creative way. What's better? I've used both. Good amps bad amps. Direct solutions, non direct. Who cares. Whatever works.
I probably should have taken up piano, not being able to appreciate these subtle diffs. Hey man, run your piano through this! it will Rock!
If you are a 'former POD lover', I don't really understand. It's just another tool. It may work or it may not. Use a 1/2" or a 9/16ths wrench on you lawn mower. Which will work best?
That's a bad comparison. heheh, But I had to hunt around for a wrench today.
I have to disagree with you on 'not using the reverb or effects'. Who is to judge what will work? I guess if you have something better after the fact than that's good.
I do agree that the POD does do well for solo's. I like the 'freedom' of using the pod to work out solo's in a distorted context, without being drowned out by a guitar amplifier over my headphones(one room). I find it too be great in a creative way. What's better? I've used both. Good amps bad amps. Direct solutions, non direct. Who cares. Whatever works.
I probably should have taken up piano, not being able to appreciate these subtle diffs. Hey man, run your piano through this! it will Rock!
Krakit
Rzzzzz!
Emeric said:
I know you were just being fasicious here, but how would that sound, really?
I use guitar effects on my keyboards alla time. Flangers, phasers, wah-wah et al. Would a POD really sound good hooked up to a synth?
Just asking
E
Emeric
New member
What's worse is you quoted me before editing 
It just might sound good. I run my old piece of crap yamaha keyboard through a wah wah into a crate amp, that 's a bad scene. But it's interesting.
Not being totally, but somewhat for sure.
It just might sound good. I run my old piece of crap yamaha keyboard through a wah wah into a crate amp, that 's a bad scene. But it's interesting.
Not being totally, but somewhat for sure.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
The POD is just another tool in the arsenal... I ran a snare into it the other day, added some "roughness" to it, then blended it back in with the original... worked great, just added the "edge" to the tone I was looking for...
It's especially useful on older drum machine samples... you get yourself a whole new set of "colorations"...
It's all about experimentation...
Bruce
It's especially useful on older drum machine samples... you get yourself a whole new set of "colorations"...
It's all about experimentation...
Bruce
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
"I will say this as a former POD lover.
There will come a point when your recordings start to take on life. Things will start to jump out at you and you'll start to become very excited about the potential of your recordings. Even the commercial music that you've aways listened to will start to sound more detailed and interesting.
It will be at this point that you understand the weakness of a POD as an "end all" recording solution.......">>>>>>slackmaster
gee-mon-ezzzz.....how high is that bar stool you're sittin on??? No one in their right (recording) mind knows that there is an "end all" solution to techniques/procedures/equipment/guitar players/beer brand/tit size......c'mon..... Like Bruce said, "it's all about experimentation." "There will come a point when your recordings start to take on life."....like being assimilated by the Borg and all sounding the same....phew...sorry, had to say that!!
:-D
There will come a point when your recordings start to take on life. Things will start to jump out at you and you'll start to become very excited about the potential of your recordings. Even the commercial music that you've aways listened to will start to sound more detailed and interesting.
It will be at this point that you understand the weakness of a POD as an "end all" recording solution.......">>>>>>slackmaster
gee-mon-ezzzz.....how high is that bar stool you're sittin on??? No one in their right (recording) mind knows that there is an "end all" solution to techniques/procedures/equipment/guitar players/beer brand/tit size......c'mon..... Like Bruce said, "it's all about experimentation." "There will come a point when your recordings start to take on life."....like being assimilated by the Borg and all sounding the same....phew...sorry, had to say that!!
:-D
Blue Bear Sound
New member
What I didn't say was how little I use the POD for actual guitar tones though! (I mean personally... I almost always mic my amp for my own and my band's stuff.... studio clients on the other hand, love the POD to death!!!)
Bruce
Bruce
sonusman
Banned
Sorry guys! I cannot respect the opinions of those that think the POD is EVER going to compete with a decent amp that is mic'ed!
I keep seeing these comparisons of the POD to "big time recordings", but I hear no evidence of this.
I can pretty much always pick out when the POD is the main "amp" used in a recording.
Is the POD usable in some way? Sure. But so it a drum stick and a beer keg. Does the POD have the depth and energy of the "real deal"? You would have to be crazy or deaf to think so.
My opinion. When enough of you provide stuff I can hear that suggests otherwise, I just might change that opinion. As far as those that keep insinuating that I have some sort of "elitist" attitute when I talk about certain pieces of gear, just remember that I fully endorse PLENTY of cheap gear as being as good as top end stuff! I just don't consider the POD to be in that catagory, and never will. I think the POD is perfect for those using NT1's, Mackie preamps, Zoom effect units, and Roland VS units. It would fit with those kinds of cheesy sounds.
I keep seeing these comparisons of the POD to "big time recordings", but I hear no evidence of this.
I can pretty much always pick out when the POD is the main "amp" used in a recording.
Is the POD usable in some way? Sure. But so it a drum stick and a beer keg. Does the POD have the depth and energy of the "real deal"? You would have to be crazy or deaf to think so.
My opinion. When enough of you provide stuff I can hear that suggests otherwise, I just might change that opinion. As far as those that keep insinuating that I have some sort of "elitist" attitute when I talk about certain pieces of gear, just remember that I fully endorse PLENTY of cheap gear as being as good as top end stuff! I just don't consider the POD to be in that catagory, and never will. I think the POD is perfect for those using NT1's, Mackie preamps, Zoom effect units, and Roland VS units. It would fit with those kinds of cheesy sounds.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Ed... you big elitist! 
Besides, the POD is old news now anyways... the Behringer Virtual Fish or whatever it's called is the way to go, now! That, combined with a Zoom effect unit, and you're in pro-guitar-sound heaven!
Bruce
Besides, the POD is old news now anyways... the Behringer Virtual Fish or whatever it's called is the way to go, now! That, combined with a Zoom effect unit, and you're in pro-guitar-sound heaven!
Bruce
VOXVENDOR
New member
Ed,
You don't have to be sorry, and were not out to achieve your respect... I think a thread like this is based on user experience, and personal opinion, and what is cool about that is we can disagree. Our opinions are as useful as yours.
Seems that most here on this thread are home recording hobbyists, barring a few of us, and I can say that I use it and It works great, and the sound stands up to pretty much any commercial recordings...
My POD is actually on commercial recordings, and as Bruce said most of the customers like them... Thats what there used to playing live, and they want to capture the sound on "tape"...
As a proffecssional engineer, If I can get the same sound easier, I will.... Im not one to while away the hours on customers $$.
Lately I have been exclusively using the pod, and very happy with it...
Thats my opinion...
Joe
PS... Oh and U2 used one on the new album... theres a commercial example....(The biggest band in the world, and the hottest album, right now..)
can we all be wrong??? Hmmmm??
You don't have to be sorry, and were not out to achieve your respect... I think a thread like this is based on user experience, and personal opinion, and what is cool about that is we can disagree. Our opinions are as useful as yours.
Seems that most here on this thread are home recording hobbyists, barring a few of us, and I can say that I use it and It works great, and the sound stands up to pretty much any commercial recordings...
My POD is actually on commercial recordings, and as Bruce said most of the customers like them... Thats what there used to playing live, and they want to capture the sound on "tape"...
As a proffecssional engineer, If I can get the same sound easier, I will.... Im not one to while away the hours on customers $$.
Lately I have been exclusively using the pod, and very happy with it...
Thats my opinion...
Joe
PS... Oh and U2 used one on the new album... theres a commercial example....(The biggest band in the world, and the hottest album, right now..)
can we all be wrong??? Hmmmm??
Krakit
Rzzzzz!
Still have no personal experience with a POD, but...
I remember debates exactly like this when FM digital synths and sampling synths (like the "Emulator") came out.
"Real musicians" (string and horn sections et al) "will never be replaced" which eventually turned into "Synthesisers are putting people out of work!!!" Crap, I even wrote a song about it myself back when bands like A Flock of Seagulls were hitting the top 40.
Time marches on. The piano met with some resistance when it made the scene as well. As did the electric guitar, the solid body guitar and the Rhodes.
There's always resistence to change. LP's to CD's. Analogue recording to digital. Anyone remember the "Much Colder" vs. "Less Noise" arguments?
Does it really surprise anyone that a unit that supposedly satisfies an established niche is the focus of controversy? Especially when such a niche takes a large investment in not only gear but patience, experience and know how?
It's not the first time this has happened, ladies and gentlemen.
But that's progress:
I'm thinking that amp modelers are just coming out of their shells now and will improve more and more as time goes forward. It WILL reach a point where close amp mic'ing will no longer be practical in the face of it. It's just progress and the wheels are made from huge stone slabs. WATCH YOUR FEET!!!!
I remember debates exactly like this when FM digital synths and sampling synths (like the "Emulator") came out.
"Real musicians" (string and horn sections et al) "will never be replaced" which eventually turned into "Synthesisers are putting people out of work!!!" Crap, I even wrote a song about it myself back when bands like A Flock of Seagulls were hitting the top 40.
Time marches on. The piano met with some resistance when it made the scene as well. As did the electric guitar, the solid body guitar and the Rhodes.
There's always resistence to change. LP's to CD's. Analogue recording to digital. Anyone remember the "Much Colder" vs. "Less Noise" arguments?
Does it really surprise anyone that a unit that supposedly satisfies an established niche is the focus of controversy? Especially when such a niche takes a large investment in not only gear but patience, experience and know how?
It's not the first time this has happened, ladies and gentlemen.
But that's progress:
- How many folks are using Synths over hiring string sections?
- How many record stores still carry vinyl?
I'm thinking that amp modelers are just coming out of their shells now and will improve more and more as time goes forward. It WILL reach a point where close amp mic'ing will no longer be practical in the face of it. It's just progress and the wheels are made from huge stone slabs. WATCH YOUR FEET!!!!
VOXVENDOR
New member
Very well said Krak..... Sort of the same debate with analoque and digital... Some say tape is "warmer", and others say digital sounds just like tape.... I wouldn't say analoque is warmer, , yet Digital and analoque are different sounds definately..... but back to the point,
You are right, that they will get better, and I bet $1000 that eventually amp miking will be rarely used, in the scheme of things......
Remember when the microwave came out, and everyone said, scrambled eggs taste crappy in them.... well I like microwaved scrambled eggs!.........
Ok this is going nowhere....
You are right, that they will get better, and I bet $1000 that eventually amp miking will be rarely used, in the scheme of things......
Remember when the microwave came out, and everyone said, scrambled eggs taste crappy in them.... well I like microwaved scrambled eggs!.........
Ok this is going nowhere....
BBB
Member
Yeah, but not all progress is for the better for all situations.
For example, the transistor came along to replace the tube. Sure it works great in some applications, but they usually don't come close to replacing a good tube amp.
Most of the gadgets you listed (electric guitars, microwave, CD, etc.) came out to be better than or to add another element to existing technology in some manner. They weren't trying to be the exact same thing as the old technology. The modeling amplifiers are attempting to produce the exact same sound as the old technology.
However, yes, the modeling amps are another weapon in our arsinal. Just as the microwave can cook food quicker, but not replace the gradual simmering of a stovetop, the modeling amps can add tonal variety, but not replace a true tube amp (at least not in this century).
Matt
For example, the transistor came along to replace the tube. Sure it works great in some applications, but they usually don't come close to replacing a good tube amp.
Most of the gadgets you listed (electric guitars, microwave, CD, etc.) came out to be better than or to add another element to existing technology in some manner. They weren't trying to be the exact same thing as the old technology. The modeling amplifiers are attempting to produce the exact same sound as the old technology.
However, yes, the modeling amps are another weapon in our arsinal. Just as the microwave can cook food quicker, but not replace the gradual simmering of a stovetop, the modeling amps can add tonal variety, but not replace a true tube amp (at least not in this century).
Matt
VOXVENDOR
New member
Very True Matt........
Both sides of this have good points...... What a good debate, seeing everyones different Ideas......
Joe
Both sides of this have good points...... What a good debate, seeing everyones different Ideas......
Joe
Krakit
Rzzzzz!
BBB "not in this century"
I don't know about that. This century is just starting out.
Thing is, the synthesiser (my original example not just from my most recent post, but also my first post in this thread) is designed to replace real existing instruments. Not just improve them.
Do synths manage this even today? Nope, there are still full blown orchastras and there are even some artists that DO hire string and horn sections to play on their albums.
I don't believe in absolutes. Harpsichords make it into studios, folks still use acoustic guitars and others will opt for analogue over digital. Hell, I still think that beta beat the pants off of VHS, but that's another rant.
My point is that synthesisers are used more often than real instruments because they do sound very good and to most untrained ears perfect.
I think that the thing that strikes me in this conversation isn't weather or not PODs sound better or do a better or even equal job to close mic'd amps.
I think what I'm reacting to is the "It'll never become an accepted substitute" argument.
That's not a very open minded attitude. Amplifiers are designed to fulfill a purpose. Propellers are designed to fulfill a purpose too. Jet engines fulfill the purpose a bit better. Maybe that's a bad example because the point in your post is that some things replace for the sake of improvement while others seek to mimick something out of existance. But can you say with certainty that amplifiers are the best of all possible worlds? There can never be a technology to surpass them?
I resubmit the propeller/jet analogy.
Now, proplellers, Model T's, Horse drawn wagons and wooden clubs for boppin' folks with are all still being used today in the 21'st century, but most are entering the realm of novilty over nessessity. It happens to everything sooner or later.
I don't know about that. This century is just starting out.
Thing is, the synthesiser (my original example not just from my most recent post, but also my first post in this thread) is designed to replace real existing instruments. Not just improve them.
Do synths manage this even today? Nope, there are still full blown orchastras and there are even some artists that DO hire string and horn sections to play on their albums.
I don't believe in absolutes. Harpsichords make it into studios, folks still use acoustic guitars and others will opt for analogue over digital. Hell, I still think that beta beat the pants off of VHS, but that's another rant.
My point is that synthesisers are used more often than real instruments because they do sound very good and to most untrained ears perfect.
I think that the thing that strikes me in this conversation isn't weather or not PODs sound better or do a better or even equal job to close mic'd amps.
I think what I'm reacting to is the "It'll never become an accepted substitute" argument.
That's not a very open minded attitude.
Amplifiers are designed to fulfill a purpose. Propellers are designed to fulfill a purpose too. Jet engines fulfill the purpose a bit better. Maybe that's a bad example because the point in your post is that some things replace for the sake of improvement while others seek to mimick something out of existance. But can you say with certainty that amplifiers are the best of all possible worlds? There can never be a technology to surpass them?I resubmit the propeller/jet analogy.
Now, proplellers, Model T's, Horse drawn wagons and wooden clubs for boppin' folks with are all still being used today in the 21'st century, but most are entering the realm of novilty over nessessity. It happens to everything sooner or later.
sonusman
Banned
My last comment on this subject. In time, those who disagree will see that it is true.
Those that prefer a POD over a mic'ed cabinet or even think it is as good are DEAF!!!
Peace.
Ed
Those that prefer a POD over a mic'ed cabinet or even think it is as good are DEAF!!!
Peace.
Ed
Slackmaster2K
Gone
We're not talking about digital vs. analog. We're not talking about creativity. We're talking about using the POD to record electric guitars.
The fact of the matter is that most people who buy the POD don't do so to liven up snare drums. Most people who purchase POD's, like most of the people who ask about them on the BBS here, expect to use them as the primary source of guitar sounds in their recordings. In this case the POD is only a temporary solution, unless you don't care about what you sound like.
When I said I was an "ex POD lover", I meant that at first I thought it would be the end-all....I would finally be able to get a workable sound that would keep me happy for a good long time. For about 3 months I was indeed very happy....until I started listening critically to my guitar sound...and got a better soundcard...and then blamo, the POD starts sounding pretty poor indeed.
I'm not against using the POD as "another tool". In fact I don't *hate* the POD at all. I'm just upset that some people people claim that that the POD can create big-time professional sounds. That is an absolute lie. Naive amatures like me hear things like "professional sound" and we want to believe it...and we go out and buy these boxes that at first do sound very impressive. That's what I get upset about.
I haven't heard anything from any of the people on this BBS who like to claim wild shit about POD's and virtual drums and whatnot. If you are so confident that your POD recording stacks up to a commercial grade recording, then I want to hear it. Not in private either...no CD exchanges...just post to the clinic, it only takes a minute. I've posted plenty of my own sad shit to the clinic so you all know where I stand.
I don't care if you're an amature or a professional. If you can say that the POD stacks up, then obviously you've recorded with it...so let's hear it. I'm especially interested to hear from a lot of the professionals around here who have yet to post a single mix publically.
Slackmaster 2000
The fact of the matter is that most people who buy the POD don't do so to liven up snare drums. Most people who purchase POD's, like most of the people who ask about them on the BBS here, expect to use them as the primary source of guitar sounds in their recordings. In this case the POD is only a temporary solution, unless you don't care about what you sound like.
When I said I was an "ex POD lover", I meant that at first I thought it would be the end-all....I would finally be able to get a workable sound that would keep me happy for a good long time. For about 3 months I was indeed very happy....until I started listening critically to my guitar sound...and got a better soundcard...and then blamo, the POD starts sounding pretty poor indeed.
I'm not against using the POD as "another tool". In fact I don't *hate* the POD at all. I'm just upset that some people people claim that that the POD can create big-time professional sounds. That is an absolute lie. Naive amatures like me hear things like "professional sound" and we want to believe it...and we go out and buy these boxes that at first do sound very impressive. That's what I get upset about.
I haven't heard anything from any of the people on this BBS who like to claim wild shit about POD's and virtual drums and whatnot. If you are so confident that your POD recording stacks up to a commercial grade recording, then I want to hear it. Not in private either...no CD exchanges...just post to the clinic, it only takes a minute. I've posted plenty of my own sad shit to the clinic so you all know where I stand.
I don't care if you're an amature or a professional. If you can say that the POD stacks up, then obviously you've recorded with it...so let's hear it. I'm especially interested to hear from a lot of the professionals around here who have yet to post a single mix publically.
Slackmaster 2000
A
ametth
Sir Cool of Coronado
I would like to second's Ed's and Slackmaster's thoughts. So called pro's: please post your "pro" results with the POD. From my experience, this box sounds nothing close to a miced amp.
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
Guitars are not the major parts in most of these songs, but the solos are all generally guitar, and chorus' too. I have posted in the MP3 clinic, but because of the genre, I think I scare the youngsters away....hence, generally no replies (oops...I guess that is a reply in itself). Give the music a chance however (and if you like the message too....great!)
Guitars...mostly POD, but I won't tell what is, and what isn't at this point.
Listen to the first song, especially[for these purposes]......"Trust"
http://www.mp3.com/theupperroom
Guitars...mostly POD, but I won't tell what is, and what isn't at this point.
Listen to the first song, especially[for these purposes]......"Trust"
http://www.mp3.com/theupperroom