Anybody else frustrated with Nowhereradio?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CyanJaguar
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You know what, Waldo, you win.

I dont have the perspecuity to explain it any better, so you are right.

If you cant see the circular reasoning in your arguement, then I cant show it to you.


And sorry if you dont subscribe to the wildcard theory. I dont care to listen to music just because its indie. I want to listen to good music, regardless of genre or recording quality, or source.

Fortunately, I have come to realize that its no use trying to polish a turd like many musicians do who dont know or follow the rules.
If one creates a gem, then they have the chance to shine and stand before kings. Not everybody who hits the record button is meant to be a songwriter or melody writer and if I dont like their offering because it contains nothing that makes me want to listen over and over, then hold that against me.
 
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What you presented of your opinion of 'good' was what was popular, and sold records. That was very clear.

If everyone thought the same, we'd never have new music to tempt our ears.

It's differences that make things interesting. What's good to you, is shit to someone else, but sometimes you have to try what you don't like, and give it a fair chance, or as stated before, you become a very shallow person.

I dislike shallow people...

W.
 
TheRealWaldo said:
What you presented of your opinion of 'good' was what was popular, and sold records. That was very clear.

If everyone thought the same, we'd never have new music to tempt our ears.

It's differences that make things interesting. What's good to you, is shit to someone else, but sometimes you have to try what you don't like, and give it a fair chance, or as stated before, you become a very shallow person.

I dislike shallow people...

W.
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NO !

NO NO NO NO NO !!!


I'll try this again ,Waldo,

It is not good because it is popular. No. It is popular because it is good.

It is not good because it is popular. No. It is popular because it is good.

It is not good because it is popular. No. It is popular because it is good.





as I said, I am not being very perspecous, but I hope that sentence will help everyone understand what I am trying to say. I cant say it any clearer.
 
Quite the conundrum... Earlier you stated;

I dont know if my ability to classify good music from bad can be classified as superhuman, but I do know that I have a record company's mindset when I am listening to music on this board. ie, I am looking for a song that has a wildcard because its the one that will sell millions of copies. Unfortunately, the public wants to hear a wildcard in the first minute or its time to move on.
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'it's good because it's a wildcard, it's a wildcard because it's popular, and sell lots of records' and now...

'it's popular because it's good'

My man, you accused me of circular logic... mirror?

W.
 
as I said, I am not being very perspecous...
Click to expand...

Huh? Wanna try that one again?

I think you must mean "perspicuous," as in "plain to the understanding especially because of clarity and precision of presentation" (Merriam-Webster Dictionary), which I find ironic, as it seems to me that use of a word like perspicuous, even if spelled correctly, immediately removes its user from any hope of clarity...
 
TheRealWaldo said:
Quite the conundrum... Earlier you stated;



'it's good because it's a wildcard, it's a wildcard because it's popular, and sell lots of records' and now...

'it's popular because it's good'

My man, you accused me of circular logic... mirror?

W.
Click to expand...

*sigh*

you win.
 
AlChuck said:
Huh? Wanna try that one again?

I think you must mean "perspicuous," as in "plain to the understanding especially because of clarity and precision of presentation" (Merriam-Webster Dictionary), which I find ironic, as it seems to me that use of a word like perspicuous, even if spelled correctly, immediately removes its user from any hope of clarity...
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Alchuck,

thanks for the clarification. Perspicuous. I know that I misspelled it.

I'll try to remember the spelling from now on.

Funny comment, by the way.
 
Stating 'you win' makes it sound like there was some sort of contest.

Or simply, you are resigning because you refuse to reinforce your statements.

Show some balls, and lose the shallow attitude man! Answer Kramers question.

W.
 
Maybe a simple analogy would help here (second point)...

If you were known for the statement 'I can tell a woman worth marrying from one that's not from just looking at her'

What would people call you?

What's the likelyhood you'd get a date?

W.
 
Wildcards--When I used to see publishers, who were supposed to be able to "hear" the creme, they used to say all kinds of things. "The songs good--but we need GREAT", or "I can't tell you a thing about how to write, but I know a hit when I hear it" or else they'd pull out the latest number one and explain why it was better than my song (easy to do, right?).

Nobody has been able to quantify the ingredients that makes a song great. Yet, when you hear greatness, it comes across somehow. I mention all this because I assume your term, wildcard, is in reference to this extra magic that makes a song a cut above other similar songs. Its the thing that captures the listeners attention in a very pleasurable way. It starts to work magic and you don't really know how to put a finger on it--but its there. In "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence", its Phadrus's 'Quality'.

And-if I understand you correctly--it doesn't mean the song is a guaranteed radio hit--just that it has that potential. If I am following, the wildcard song brings out agreement with the listener--it connects to the listeners reality.

So, do I understand you at all? I don't know. My take on wildcards is what I just said.

Its funny, but I think its something you stumble on in the writing process. Try and write ten songs--similar styles and themes--and one of them will be better than all the rest. It could have even been the one you spent the least time on. My point is this: you can learn craft, either as a writer or as a musician, but you can't learn "how to write a wildcard". Its mostly happy accident, learning your craft and applying it as often as you can. If there were some formula, I'd bottle it up and sell it to all the folks who work their tails off on music--and I'd make millions.

So, CyanJaguar, if the above is way off base, let me know. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I'm just interested in this whole idea--its an interesting discussion.
 
I mean,

If I originally said:
I am looking for a song that has a wildcard because its the one that will sell millions of copies.

lets break it down.

I am looking for a song that has a wildcard

Why?

Because its the one that will sell millions of copies.

========================================

"I am looking for a song that has a wildcard." What is a wildcard? A wildcard makes one want to listen to a song over and over again.

why?

"Because its the one that will sell millions of copies" By being a wildcard, ie by making people want to listen over and over, the song will sell millions. Why will it sell million? Because people want to listen over and over and reward the writer by buying his CD.

why will most non-wildcard songs not sell millions of copies? because they dont make the listener want to listen over and over again. They dont bless the listener.


Kramer, the definition of wildcard is " the musical phrase that will make a listener go "oh yeah" and want to listen again and again.

A hook is used interchangeably with chorus. Many wildcards occur in the chorus, and many wildcards dont appear in the chorus. A chorus is not automatically a wildcard. For example, some of sluice's songs have the wildcard in the chorus/hook but there are exceptions:

"rhythms" does not have a chorus yet it has a wildcard in the line /you'd run a hundred years and come home with nothing/.
and thats just one of many wildcards scattered all over that song.

"covenant" has a nice chorus/hook, but the wildcard for me is found beginning at 3:48 and ending at 4:06 where he sings:
/hitherto I've shown you these patterns to the ways that I do thank you./
 
crawdad said:
Wildcards--When I used to see publishers, who were supposed to be able to "hear" the creme, they used to say all kinds of things. "The songs good--but we need GREAT", or "I can't tell you a thing about how to write, but I know a hit when I hear it" or else they'd pull out the latest number one and explain why it was better than my song (easy to do, right?).

Nobody has been able to quantify the ingredients that makes a song great. Yet, when you hear greatness, it comes across somehow. I mention all this because I assume your term, wildcard, is in reference to this extra magic that makes a song a cut above other similar songs. Its the thing that captures the listeners attention in a very pleasurable way. It starts to work magic and you don't really know how to put a finger on it--but its there. In "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence", its Phadrus's 'Quality'.

And-if I understand you correctly--it doesn't mean the song is a guaranteed radio hit--just that it has that potential. If I am following, the wildcard song brings out agreement with the listener--it connects to the listeners reality.

So, do I understand you at all? I don't know. My take on wildcards is what I just said.

Its funny, but I think its something you stumble on in the writing process. Try and write ten songs--similar styles and themes--and one of them will be better than all the rest. It could have even been the one you spent the least time on. My point is this: you can learn craft, either as a writer or as a musician, but you can't learn "how to write a wildcard". Its mostly happy accident, learning your craft and applying it as often as you can. If there were some formula, I'd bottle it up and sell it to all the folks who work their tails off on music--and I'd make millions.

So, CyanJaguar, if the above is way off base, let me know. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I'm just interested in this whole idea--its an interesting discussion.
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No, Crawdad, THANKYOU. You said it with more clarity than I could have ever said it. Thats a perfect definition. You can just tell when the song is great, and in that same vein, I can usually just tell when a song is going to be a hit.
 
I must point out that the fact that something is popular does not mean it's good. Often the exact opposite it true...look at Britney Spears.

Also.....all this wildcard crap.......those are things that can only be inferred after the fact. No one has ever been able to define what makes something a hit or not if you listen....hits are all over the map. Plus, the band that's a hit today is crap tomorrow.

Me personally?....I could give a crap. I like what I like and that's all I care about. I mean....look at SLuiCe's work. To me it's absolutely terrific stuff but it has virtually no commercial appeal whatsoever. Who cares? (Well...Tom probably does but that's what you get for being special) :D
 
But a million seller is not always a wildcard, right? But ALL wildcards will sell a million right, because everybody will want to hear them over and over? Am I getting warm yet?

So, its unknown whether one has a wildcard until it sells a million? Is that the definition?

Sorry...its just vague as hell to me.

Oh, did the Beatles ever write any wildcards? Just curious. I can't tell if they were just great songs or if it was some wildcard thing that made them all sell millions.:D
 
Lt. Bob said:
I must point out that the fact that something is popular does not mean it's good. Often the exact opposite it true...look at Britney Spears.

Also.....all this wildcard crap.......those are things that can only be inferred after the fact. No one has ever been able to define what makes something a hit or not if you listen....hits are all over the map. Plus, the band that's a hit today is crap tomorrow.

Me personally?....I could give a crap. I like what I like and that's all I care about. I mean....look at SLuiCe's work. To me it's absolutely terrific stuff but it has virtually no commercial appeal whatsoever. Who cares? (Well...Tom probably does but that's what you get for being special) :D
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lt.bob, I beg to differ. I believe that Sluice has a ton of commercial appeal.
 
Okay, so, to sum it up

'It's the something that we don't know what it is'

Kind of assinine to look for something in the first few seconds of a song when you don't know what it is, isn't it?

It's like saying 'Elephants don't exist on earth' after looking for them only in downtown detroit, only, you don't know what an elephant is...

W.
 
waldo,

this arguement has become ridiculous . I am not going to argue anymore.

I'll just say that the primary purpose of this thread was nowhereradio. The only song I was able to listen to turned out to be a wildcard. Unfortunately, it was not on nowhereradio because on nowhereradio I cant listen to the songs. THey dont stream right and end up frustrating me.

All I am asking for is that songs be able to stream from wherever people put them, and if they dont stream on Nowhereradio, then folks might want to find other sources that will work as they should.
 
CyanJaguar said:
lt.bob, I beg to differ. I believe that Sluice has a ton of commercial appeal.
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What?

Now don't mistake what I'm saying 'cause I'm a big, big fan of SLuiCe and his work. He's truly awesome but what do you listen to that makes you think he has commercial appeal? I mean.......Frank Zappa was a freakin' genius but never managed to have any commercial appeal at all. Yes....he has his followers but the very definition of commercial appeal means that the masses will like and buy it and they don't. Plus, there is absolutely no indication that the masses will ever in any large numbers support music that takes thinking to listen to and there are no examples I can think of where a commercially successful artist changes time signatures every three measures. Perhaps you might correct me on this but I bet you can't think of more than a couple...if that.

Now if by commercial appeal you mean a smallish niche market....then I'm with you. SLuiCe could certainly accomplish that. But to have the masses be discerning enough to buy his stuff in large quantities.?.....no way.
And the same goes for anything else that isn't mindless drivel.
 
You're the one with the argument, which needs much clarification!

Because something doesn't work for you, it shouldn't work for anyone else, is the attitude I'm getting in general, from both points that you raised!

As far as NWR, OPEN YOUR EYES, the problem is KNOWN, and SOLUTIONS have been POSED, what have YOU done about it?

W.
 
OK--missed a post there Cyanjaguar! I think we are looking at the same thing. It IS kind of difficult, if not impossible to define. Like those publishers I mentioned, I've heard a bunch of songs that just hit radio and I can usually tell if they will fly big time. How big? Thats anybody's guess.

I think its like this: you buy an album by artist X. You listen to the whole thing. A single song or maybe a few will just stand out as better than the rest. Not that the rest is bad--maybe the whole album is great. Yet, there are certain songs that have stronger appeal than others--despite genres, like you said. Why? I wish I knew the answer!

Simple answer: they are just BETTER!

Complex answer: The artist found the right balance between hooks, melody, performance and lyrics which was combined in a sonically interesting way. For some reason people gravitate to it.

Or something like that...:D.

Yeah, its not easily definable!
 
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