Any tips on harsh vocals?

  • Thread starter Thread starter alley_boy12
  • Start date Start date
Why not try singing dry into the mic? (And, there may be "better mics" than the Astin, but that mic is certainly a fine microphone). No compression going in, and use as little as possible after that. Perhaps you're sub-consciously imagining that the compressor is going to do things that maybe it isn't--in other words, alter your technique. I may have missed it, but what kinda music are you singing? That's key.
 
I’m wondering if we’re all wondering different things. I too wonder if it’s positioning. We’d be able to spot that and confirm and advise better if we could hear it? Can you put a short clip of the worst example up? Ten seconds would probably be enough. I remember one from years back where the problem we identified instantly, because a couple of us had heard it before. The singer had a gap in her front teeth, and the wind through it, catching the mic diaphragm was the key cause. Lifting the mic up and aiming down cured it. Your harshness could be something electronic, or physical, or a rotten bad luck combo of your voice response vs the mic’s response.
 
TimOD said:
Why not try singing dry into the mic? (And, there may be "better mics" than the Astin, but that mic is certainly a fine microphone). No compression going in, and use as little as possible after that. Perhaps you're sub-consciously imagining that the compressor is going to do things that maybe it isn't--in other words, alter your technique. I may have missed it, but what kinda music are you singing? That's key.
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ok thank u. I appreciate that and i will definately try that! there is no doubt in my mind its simply because of the way i rap, i have heavy sibilance.
 
rob aylestone said:
I’m wondering if we’re all wondering different things. I too wonder if it’s positioning. We’d be able to spot that and confirm and advise better if we could hear it? Can you put a short clip of the worst example up? Ten seconds would probably be enough. I remember one from years back where the problem we identified instantly, because a couple of us had heard it before. The singer had a gap in her front teeth, and the wind through it, catching the mic diaphragm was the key cause. Lifting the mic up and aiming down cured it. Your harshness could be something electronic, or physical, or a rotten bad luck combo of your voice response vs the mic’s response.
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im convinced its me, the way i rap (speech) carries heavy sibilance. however i want to learn ways to diminish harshness when mixing. Check this clip out, here is a song i found on youtube where the sibilance is still present but yet NOT UNCOMFORTABLE to listen to. A perfect example of what i am aiming for...thank you for your feedback.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sNVg98LKzvQ0SXh_vufGtkmfGxuVm-x1/view?usp=sharing
 
alley_boy12 said:
im convinced its me, the way i rap (speech) carries heavy sibilance. however i want to learn ways to diminish harshness when mixing. Check this clip out, here is a song i found on youtube where the sibilance is still present but yet NOT UNCOMFORTABLE to listen to. A perfect example of what i am aiming for...thank you for your feedback.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sNVg98LKzvQ0SXh_vufGtkmfGxuVm-x1/view?usp=sharing
Click to expand...
Sounds like that has a lot of heavy vocoder. I don't even listen that close and could hear that.
But can you post something from you?
 
The best place to minimize the sibilance is at the source. Speaking and singing are two different things, so if you can adjust things like your head positioning, and how much you open your mouth, you completely change the tone coming out. You get more body, more pure tone, when you open the mouth wider.

Any mic with a high end emphasis will accentuate sibilance. Sometimes you can minimize it by either raising the mic something like eye level, or moving it to the side so that you aren't going directly at the mic with your voice. How far are you from the mic? Close in captures EVERYTHING! Try moving it back and to the side, then do a recording. Did it change?

Trying to "fix in the mix" is usually a band-aid approach, and while we all do it to some degree, it's not the best way.
 
Sibilance is pretty close to the gap tooth thing I mentioned. I don't do rap, but have done so in the past, and noticed that the snag with some style of it is when the content is either angry, or important - and then rap folk change the way they speak/sing so it contains loads of plosives. The P's, B's T's in particular as they burst out of the lips - then you get the American pronunciation of 'CH' sounds - so 'chance' suffers. In English, the a is pronounced as an 'aah' sound, with a round mouth shape, in American it's a much shorter 'a' and the mouth takes the wide shape - like a ee sound, if that makes sense.

First thing - have you tried a pop shield - the thin mesh ones like girls wear on legs (tights, or stockings to us) in a frame, or even wire coat hanger! These are pretty good at stopping this kind of thing. From windshields are worth trying, and tilting the mic down or across rather than full on.

Your voice will be unique - so listening to others doesn't help really.
 
Possibly switching to a dynamic mic, like a Shure SM58 might help? With a pop screen, of course. They can be bad with splosives, of course, due to the proximity effect, so back off the pop screen a couple of inches from the mic.
 

alley_boy12,​

That mic has a good bit of lift at the high end, kind of typical of many modern condensers, and it can be flattering to some voices, but if you have some sibilance, it's probably going to make it worse.


And, I see in your earlier posts you are compressing a good bit right going in, and that may not be helping because it's baked in stuff that you might be better off cleaning up before you compress. Of course, I don't do that style of music and have moved to 100% ITB and so spend a fair amount of time (when necessary) using EQ and automation at the front of processing, maybe with some ["surgical"] click removal or de-ess on the raw track (iZotope RX) before I even let the track loose in the DAW. Global de-essers can do more harm than good, at least with default settings, and I've almost never found it to be something I can just turn on.

But, back to the mic, yeah, it might not be helping. I agree something as simple as a decent (or better) dynamic with a pop screen (not foam) to help with mic distance and angle, might be worth trying.
 
TimOD said:
Why not try singing dry into the mic? (And, there may be "better mics" than the Astin, but that mic is certainly a fine microphone). No compression going in, and use as little as possible after that. Perhaps you're sub-consciously imagining that the compressor is going to do things that maybe it isn't--in other words, alter your technique. I may have missed it, but what kinda music are you singing? That's
Click to expand...

TimOD said:
Why not try singing dry into the mic? (And, there may be "better mics" than the Astin, but that mic is certainly a fine microphone). No compression going in, and use as little as possible after that. Perhaps you're sub-consciously imagining that the compressor is going to do things that maybe it isn't--in other words, alter your technique. I may have missed it, but what kinda music are you singing? That's key.
Click to expand...
I will definitely try that, no compressor going in. I ususally use 2 compressors in the vocal chain. The 1st one to level dynamics and the 2nd one to add tone and place vocals more up front in the mix. Not to mention the hardware compressor going in...and furthermore before the mastering process i add a bus compressor to the whole mix to glue it together. I will definately try less compressing. I think im getting carried away.
 
DM60 said:
Sounds like that has a lot of heavy vocoder. I don't even listen that close and could hear that.
But can you post something ....Here are some samples. Two different links. The mixes are not done, ongoing projects but maybe you can get an idea. Listen to mix 1 the harshness and mix 2 as well. I did some E.Q/ compression/ reverb. Simple mixing.
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ev3tlFjvxwnqOaj-w0ZLLuoSPWhntpPF/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EoWVHByuZLp_vBhgx6dbo3nyk9gkmVis/view?usp=drivesdk
 
I can't open either of those? They don't have a suffix - mp3 or wav or zip etc?
 
rob aylestone said:
I can't open either of those? They don't have a suffix - mp3 or wav or zip etc?
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Chrome browser tried to open a player but it failed to play. Then, I added .mp3 to the downloaded file and it opened in Audacity OK.

Heavily compressed, and I have no experience with the genre, but it sounds like the attack might be too short because it dulls the consonants, making it hard to understand. (Though I don't know if that's how it's supposed to sound.)

Always better to work on technique, both in the performance and recording-engineer parts, and create a track that requires very little work to sound as it belongs where it lands in the mix, with little more than level (clip-gain/fader) and pan adjustments. THEN you start doing the EQ carving to open things up, and maybe compression to glue it back together.

If you want advice on the vocal track, just post the raw (non-lossy, no FX, WAV) file in a Google Drive location.
 
Failed on audacity and the other mp3 players on this macbook - audacity said it did not recognise the file format?

EDIT - VLC that I sometimes use for video opened it.

I'm not sure I'd call it harsh - but it seems to be EQ'd to remove the top and bottom - then had the wick turned up. It's very much middle frequencies. How far were you from the mic? Proximity effect would warn it up a bit if you took care with wind?
 
Is it the clarity or fidelity of digital recording that makes everything harsh? With all the un-lost high end? My stock standard recording footprint is pretty much excessive boominess and mud with stabby, harsh, brittle, ear piercing high end frequency. All at the same time. I'm sure professionals do not settle for recordings like that. But then again I'm sure they aren't recording in a DIY treated 8x9 foot spare bedroom. Or maybe they are and it's me who sucks.
 
Monkey Allen said:
Is it the clarity or fidelity of digital recording that makes everything harsh? With all the un-lost high end? My stock standard recording footprint is pretty much excessive boominess and mud with stabby, harsh, brittle, ear piercing high end frequency. All at the same time. I'm sure professionals do not settle for recordings like that. But then again I'm sure they aren't recording in a DIY treated 8x9 foot spare bedroom. Or maybe they are and it's me who sucks.
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Ditto
 
Use some form of EQ or lowpass/highpass filter. Pull the sliders at extreme enough levels to make the changes obvious, then slide around until you hear frequencies you dont like. Lower the EQ there. Do the same thing and look for sounds you like and pump the EQ up a bit there. 100 - 200 hz and 3000- 5000 hz are frequencies you might want to emphasize while avoiding all the boxiness starting at around 300
 
A couple of things I've learned

Use a de-esser on vocal tracks. Every vocal track I've ever recorded or have captured live, or have mixed live, absolutely needs a De-esser so that it sits nicely in the mix and doesn't kill either the audience or a mix.

It almost doesn't matter what microphone you use. Mixes will need a certain amount of de-essing on vocals, unless for some reason they don't. And that's the tricky "use your ears" that everyone talks about.

The amount and style of de-essing will depend on the microphone. If you use (like I have) a cheaper condenser (basically anything under $500), there's a good chance you'll need to use a regular de-esser and a multi-band compressor to deal with harshness above 10khz. Hopefully that helps narrow the harshness issue a bit.
 
Thome day I'll try uthing a de-ethther. I'll thart uthing it when we remove the letter th from the Englithh language!

Sorry, I'm in a mood this morning. :-)

But I really don't understand the need to removed every S from vocals. It's part of the language. To my ears, English is actually much less of a problem than Spanish or French. I have a couple of de-essers in the plugin folder, and I have yet to use one on any track. Recordings were made for decades without using a de-esser. How did it become a "must always use" tool?

Or maybe it's the singer's technique that is the culprit.
 
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