Any Thread in This Forum = Analog vs Digital

  • Thread starter Thread starter Beck
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miroslav said:
... change doesn't always come easy for a lot of people.
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I don't think that's unnecessarily a bad or odd thing. For the majority of mankind's history, change came very slowly if at all. For hundreds of years, if you wanted to hear music, you either played your own home made instruments or travelled somewhere by foot or by horse to go and see someone else perform live because there was no such thing as a recording other then sheet music. So really, its only been the past 100 years where we've been barraged with a flood of new and ever changing technology to allow us to record and listen to music. And in the past 100 years, we've been subjected to dozens of ways to go about doing that and are pressured through capitalism and never ending growth to be up to speed on every last development and expected to embrace whatever is new and sneer and scoff at whatever just got kicked to the curb, even though that "junk" was all the rage a few short years ago.

So, if you grew up on tape, liked it, learned how to work with it and were comfortable with that process, I don't see where's there's any shame in wanting to stick with that and just enjoy it for what it is and what it can do.

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
So, if you grew up on tape, liked it, learned how to work with it and were comfortable with that process, I don't see where's there's any shame in wanting to stick with that and just enjoy it for what it is and what it can do.

Cheers! :)
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Who said there was? No one's knocking tape at all. I'm certainly not. I'd record to tape in a second if it didn't involve such a massive time consuming learning curve and expense to match what I'm doing in-the-box. Tape simply won't make me any better. I don't knock it though. "Digital people" don't look down or even sideways at recording in analog. Everyone knows it's cool. It's the attitudes of tape people that makes the rest of the universe hate you.
 
Greg_L said:
Who said there was? No one's knocking tape at all. I'm certainly not.
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I didn't say you specifically were. I said it was the market forces which primarily drive the desire to buy the latest greatest widget and abandon the last one they're no longer pimping.

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
I didn't say you specifically were. I said it was the market forces which primarily drive the desire to buy the latest greatest widget and abandon the last one they're no longer pimping.

Cheers! :)
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Ah yes. And the prevalence of monkey-see-monkey-do. Band/Producer X uses a certain gizmo or technique, then everyone has to do the same.
 
The Ghost of FM said:
So, if you grew up on tape, liked it, learned how to work with it and were comfortable with that process, I don't see where's there's any shame in wanting to stick with that and just enjoy it for what it is and what it can do.

Cheers! :)
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Thats my story and Im sticking to it. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your point of view), I was exposed to tape early in life. Reel to reel first, then a big step backwards to 4 track cartridge, then 8 track cartridge then cassette. I should have stuck to reel to reel in hindsight. All that money, which I didnt have much of spent on the then latest technology of the 4 tracks (pre-recorded no less). Oh wait, that technology sucks, so bought into doing in all over again with 8 tracks. Not so fast young man, those suck, try cassettes. Ugg. Then CDs came out and I bought into that, I still do, they are so easy to transport, fairly rugged and a ton of albums fit into a shoebox!

In the last very few years I have geared up a modest rig for digital recording. What I find to be its biggest asset to me is it makes it very easy to record our band practices and jam sessions. Then when one of us says "hey that was cool" we have it to listen to immediately and play around with it. I can play around with it on my own time and easily lay down several different drum arrangements. The downside for me is system problems, driver issues and unexpected behaviors, usually at the most inopportune time. Again, Ugg.

When I started out with my home recording studio I decided I wanted to do it in reel to reel analog. I like the idea of vintage equipment still being put to good use. I collect vintage cars too, so I guess that mindset is hardwired in me. The positives of this approach were that I could find and afford the pinnacles of that technology, No need to worry about having to update or replace them every few years, they were already "obsolete" and it doesnt look like anyone is ever going to produce analog machines superior to them ever again. I knew already how to work with this equipment, and importantly to me, I can repair and maintain them. The drawbacks are all that maintenance, and the cost of media. 30 minutes worth of tape can set one back a few hundred dollars.

If I have come across as one of those analog old geezers, it was not intentional.

:listeningmusic:
 
Well I be glad to say I am an old analog/tape geezer. My first reel-to-reel was when I was like 13 years old. It was one of those suitcase deals, but I had a blast just recording all kinds of ambient stuff around the house and just messing with the tape.
From there it went on, and I still use tape in almost every recording I do, and I mixdown to tape.

That said, I've been using digital since the early '90s....and while initially the whole digital SOP was weird compared to working with analog/tape, not to mention that it required a different approach to get the same kind of sounds as when working with analog/tape....I quickly saw the value of a digital rig, but at the same time saw no point to completely abandon my analog/tape stuff just to work ITB.

For guys totally avoiding digital....I'm not sure why the big pushback, when the two formats can live together IMO better than either can alone.
For the guys doing digital but all of a sudden wanting to go all analog for the "magic"....well, sometimes I'm amused as to what some people consider a serious enough analog/tape rig. I mean, there more to it than JUST having the audio touch tape....though many newbs seem to think that's it. As Beck said, they view tape as just a hard version of a "plug-in" used for a little "effect".
It can be just that....but if you really want to live in the analog/tape world on a more complete/bigger scale....there's a lot of "moving parts" that are involved, which is why I understand why some digital guys wanted to get away from it.

Anyway...I still don't see that analog and digital must have a "VS" in-between them, but yes, some folks always want to take that position, and I guess everyone is free to approach it as they wish, though I think it's a bit extreme to religiously cling to any one format or tool. You can always keep doing the same old thing, but also nothing wrong with embracing and adding new stuff too.

Frankly...if you want to do so much as put a lousy MP3 file on MeSpace these days....YOU HAVE TO USE DIGITAL at some point.
The only way to truly be "all-analog" is to just listen to your own tapes. So I say use the analog gear and tape, it's all still great stuff...but this rebellious, almost religious, hatred of digital technology is getting kind of old.

I've already mentally crossed the line that at some point in the future I may lose the tape deck, and maybe even a lot of my outboard analog gear. I mean....I do what I can to keep my tape decks going. I just dropped $200 on a spare, used remote for my MX-80, since without the remote, you can't even arm the tracks (and the damn thing may not even be a working remote...will see when I get it in a few days)....but at some point the machines will stop working, or at least stop working optimally (this shit is 20-30 years old already). So I have to consider that at any time I may be forced to record ITB...and at this point, I think I could transition without a lot of pain...though I still prefer watching them reels go round and round.
Heck, just as I was mixing this past weekend....one of the Aux busses started acting up on a couple of channels of my console...but I think it was just some oxidation, and after pulling the module out and cleaning all the connectors, it seems to have gone away...
...but that's the stuff analog/tape use requires...lots of love and maintenance.
 
I dunno, I've said this before, you can keep a '67 Mustang running with new parts. I don't know about a little Fostex machine, but r2r technology is 70 years old, it's not that complicated really, and to have a factory in China turn out some spare parts I don't see being all that farcical. You can now get replacement clones for early 70s BBD ic chips and all sorts of tubes still. Where there's a fashion there's a factory...

Also, to carry the Mustang analogy, most of the people who own something like that either can do or know someone, or can afford to pay someone to fix them. Same with analog, most of us aren't afraid to open a deck and wield a soldering gun in anger, or we "know" someone, (and the internet allows us to "know" people without actually having to meet them....) and some others can afford to pay someone.

One irony for me is "back in teh day" there was no way I could afford to do what I do now, analog or digital. I can track at home (I'm not saying it's like tracking at Kaye-Smith) digitize and post something on the internet. The equivalent back then would have been rehearse like hell so you don't waste your $200/hr at Kaye-Smith, and then press a 7" somehow with the case of beer you got paid for your last gig....
 
Well yeah....there are some parts that can be reconditioned and/or replaced with generic stuff...but just looking at my MX-80, there's a LOT of proprietary stuff in there, and at one point when I first got the deck, I actually got in touch with Otari corporate to ask about a couple of things...and the immediate response was that the MX-80 was out of production for a very long time and they stopped carrying parts for it years ago.
If one of the main boards goes....there's no place out there to get a replacement, other than maybe waiting for one to pop up on eBay....and that can be feast or famine. The spare remote I just grabbed is like the first MX-80 item I've seen in months (and I check eBay every single day).
Luckily....AFA my MX-80, I have spares of almost everything on the machine that could go...and this spare remote was the last major spare part I was after.

My old Fostex G-16....I have an second used deck I picked up awhile ago, and also a bunch of new spare parts I bought from Fostex about 10 years ago.

But yeah...at some point the machines will stop working and there won't be a spare part.
 
miroslav said:
But yeah...at some point the machines will stop working and there won't be a spare part.
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I doubt it will be in our lifetimes though...

I did what you are doing, search out the parts and rat hole them away. All 5 of my tape machines are well represented in spares, motors, cards, solenoids, headstacks, basically anything that is unique to the machines. Pretty much everything other than cabinet parts. Where I am a little short and still hunting is for spares for my brit console. But even it is all discrete parts, and they can be hunted down in an emergency (which fortunately hasnt happened).

Why are the remote/autolocators so hard to find? I had to really hunt for a spare for the Sony APR-24s, but look long enough and...
 
Greg_L said:
Ah yes. And the prevalence of monkey-see-monkey-do. Band/Producer X uses a certain gizmo or technique, then everyone has to do the same.
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Sounds like the history of Pro Tools in a nutshell. ;)
 
mdainsd said:
Why are the remote/autolocators so hard to find? I had to really hunt for a spare for the Sony APR-24s, but look long enough and...
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I think because the ones still working are attached to machines...and the ones not, are either bad or scooped up as fast as they become available.

The guy I bought the spare remote from was also selling the autolocator for the MX-80. I didn't really have a need for that, since I don't need to do a lot of locating, and if I do, I can do it with my Microlynx....but I figured I would keep an eye on the auction to see if it could also be had....just so I have a complete MX-80 setup.
Anyway....the autolocator sold for.........................$600!!!.....even though the seller had listed both the autolocator and the remote as "possible parts-only" units.
The same guy who paid $600 for the autolocator was trying to also grab the remote....but I beat him out by $3. :)

So basically he was willing to pay over $800 for both units..... :eek:

That's why they are not easy to find. :D
 
Beck said:
Sounds like the history of Pro Tools in a nutshell. ;)
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I think so. I like meeting a fellow home recordist somewhere and have them tell me they use pro tools. I'm like "cool, I use Reaper". They stare at me blankly.
 
I saying LOL and actually meaning it
It was brief, but it was real.
 
My analog brain remembers it as: "I need your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle".

Cheers! :)
 
[the Terminator arrives naked and encounters some punks]
Punk Leader: Nice night for a walk, eh?
The Terminator: Nice night for a walk.
Punk: Wash day tomorrow? Nothing clean, right?
The Terminator: Nothing clean. Right.
Punk Leader: Hey, I think this guy's a couple cans short of a six-pack.
The Terminator: Your clothes... give them to me, now.
Punk Leader: Fuck you, asshole!

 
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