Any secrets to DI-ing Bass?
- Thread starter Nola
- Start date
Steenamaroo
...
Hey,
What preamp is it? Is the output knob gain only, or does it attenuate too?
I mean, is unity at the bottom of the scale or in the middle?
Sometimes you get an attenuator on the output to allow you to drive the input harder for whatever reason.
Maybe with a nice tube or transformer I/O preamp you like the sound of driving it hard.
I can't think of a reason to max the output and tickle the input though unless maximum on the output is actually unity, in which case that'd just be 'normal' use.
Tell us more.
As far as eq + reverb, it's that awful answer....It depends.
It's totally depended on the instrument, context, and what you want.
What preamp is it? Is the output knob gain only, or does it attenuate too?
I mean, is unity at the bottom of the scale or in the middle?
Sometimes you get an attenuator on the output to allow you to drive the input harder for whatever reason.
Maybe with a nice tube or transformer I/O preamp you like the sound of driving it hard.
I can't think of a reason to max the output and tickle the input though unless maximum on the output is actually unity, in which case that'd just be 'normal' use.
Tell us more.
As far as eq + reverb, it's that awful answer....It depends.
It's totally depended on the instrument, context, and what you want.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
my impression has been that DI bass is usually mixed/blended with an amped or amp sim bass. I didn't think DI bass alone is something that sounds particularly nice, but I may very well be wrong.
Steenamaroo
...
I find the same. I don't think I've ever recorded a bass or guitar DI and not used some kind of amp modeller or speaker emulation.
Different with keyboards/organs, I guess.
Different with keyboards/organs, I guess.
Farview
Well-known member
Di bass alone can sound great. But it depends on the bass and the type of sound you like.
As for eq, without knowing what you are working with or what you want, I can only give you generalities.
50hz is sub bass
100hz is solid low end
300hz is growl
800hz is punch and clarity
3khz is pick and string noise clarity
5k and up is "air"
Depending on the tone of the bass and the tone you want out of the bass, how much of what will be different.
---------- Update ----------
You still never told us what the preamp is.
As for eq, without knowing what you are working with or what you want, I can only give you generalities.
50hz is sub bass
100hz is solid low end
300hz is growl
800hz is punch and clarity
3khz is pick and string noise clarity
5k and up is "air"
Depending on the tone of the bass and the tone you want out of the bass, how much of what will be different.
---------- Update ----------
You still never told us what the preamp is.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
I have a DI fader in Amplitube, and I usually put it up a small amount. hmm, around -30db or so with the amp mics both at 0db. But yeah, that's for my specific situation (interface, amp sims, virtual mics etc). I'd go with Farview's opinion as long as your pre-amp sounds decent for bass. but hey, what the hell do i know?!
Nola
Well-known member
hey guys, it's the Great River single channel pre-amp. i found one used in great shape and picked it up cheap. i notice DI bass sounds so much better through it than my focusrite. i'm just using the line-in on the focusrite for the converters (i hope this setup is alright). The bass is a MIM p-bass. It's an okay bass. I'm not thrilled with the pickups and find them "flabby" sounding. Just not a tight sound to me. I was thinking of upgrading the pickups but not sure it's worth putting money into this bass.
i kind of like classic bass sounds from motown or classic rock albums (entwistle, jp jones, VU/Cale, etc)
i kind of like classic bass sounds from motown or classic rock albums (entwistle, jp jones, VU/Cale, etc)
It's all DI for me, no amp sim. Always through a compressor going in. The compressor fattens the tone up quite a bit. No reverb. If your bass is sounding flabby, play with the lows and low mids. Try the tone control on your bass too. I don't record with a P bass much, but I've had luck sometimes rolling the tone knob back, or even all the way off.
Nola
Well-known member
I like the sound better like that, too. I tried amp sims on it and they just made it bloated sounding.
When you use a compressor on the way in, is it a pedal, outboard, or a vst? I'm wondering if I should setup a vst on the way in since that's all I have. Right now I've been compressing after the fact. I admit I don't understand enough to know which is best, other than knowing if I do it on the way in it's printed.
Steenamaroo
...
Ok, compressing after the fact is done by software and compressing before hand is done by hardware but, taking preference or analog V digital debates out of the equation, there's no difference except that you're committed to it if you do it on the way in.
Technically there's a difference in that you can track hotter - With hardware comps you can track at a level that would ordinarily clip but the comp stops it from doing so.
I'm not sure there's any real advantage to that, though, with digital recording. It's not like noise floor is a problem.
I bet that was the thing to do in the tape days?
Unless you're dissatisfied what what your software compressor is doing, or you have a piece of hardware that you like the sound of, just keep doing what you do.
I've only recently started tracking backing vocals with a hardware compressor.
The reason for buying/trying was curiosity but the reason for sticking with it is I like the sound of it and it saves me from putting anywhere between 8 and 16 additional compressors in my session.
Bus compressing them isn't the same.
Technically there's a difference in that you can track hotter - With hardware comps you can track at a level that would ordinarily clip but the comp stops it from doing so.
I'm not sure there's any real advantage to that, though, with digital recording. It's not like noise floor is a problem.
I bet that was the thing to do in the tape days?
Unless you're dissatisfied what what your software compressor is doing, or you have a piece of hardware that you like the sound of, just keep doing what you do.
I've only recently started tracking backing vocals with a hardware compressor.
The reason for buying/trying was curiosity but the reason for sticking with it is I like the sound of it and it saves me from putting anywhere between 8 and 16 additional compressors in my session.
Bus compressing them isn't the same.
The chain goes: bass - Empress compressor pedal - amp head di out - Art Pro VLA 2 compressor - interface.
The Empress is very transparent. The Art has a distinctive tone that works well with bass.
That chain with a Jazz bass favoring the neck pickup is what you hear on most of the songs I've posted.
The Empress is very transparent. The Art has a distinctive tone that works well with bass.
That chain with a Jazz bass favoring the neck pickup is what you hear on most of the songs I've posted.
Nola
Well-known member
Ok, compressing after the fact is done by software and compressing before hand is done by hardware but, taking preference or analog V digital debates out of the equation, there's no difference except that you're committed to it if you do it on the way in.
Technically there's a difference in that you can track hotter - With hardware comps you can track at a level that would ordinarily clip but the comp stops it from doing so.
I'm not sure there's any real advantage to that, though, with digital recording. It's not like noise floor is a problem.
I bet that was the thing to do in the tape days?
Unless you're dissatisfied what what your software compressor is doing, or you have a piece of hardware that you like the sound of, just keep doing what you do.
I've only recently started tracking backing vocals with a hardware compressor.
The reason for buying/trying was curiosity but the reason for sticking with it is I like the sound of it and it saves me from putting anywhere between 8 and 16 additional compressors in my session.
Bus compressing them isn't the same.
That's very helpful thanks.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
My go-to bass recording rig is DI into my hardware Langevin DVC preamp/limiter.
The DI input on the DVC is a FET circuit, and I've found that those just sound really good on bass guitar. I have another pre with w FET DI, and it's the same kind of good sound. I think it's how the FET circuits bring out the mid-range and mid-lows.
With the DVC, most of the time I'm just using the DI without the limiter section, which on the DVC can be separated from the preamp, so it's like two units...preamp and limiter....and that's how I have them wired to my patch bay. Otherwise, they could be left internally coupled, so the preamp and limiter are more like a channel strip setup.
Anyway...I just patch the limiter in when I need it. I find that I like it without the limiter for most bass tracks, which gives the base a more defined tone...but sometimes I'll use it with the limiter patched in, and then I get a softer/smoother bass tone. It's an ELOP limiter circuit, which also adds to that softer/smoother character. So the limiter is just catching the top peaks, without touching the rest of the signal.
AFA input gain VS output...well, the input gain is what will drive the front end circuitry...so you can hit it harder or not, for a cleaner sound...where the output is just the overall level leaving the box, which you can set to unity to match your next piece of gear in the chain...or you can use the output to drive the next piece more or less for additional tone/character shaping.
The DI input on the DVC is a FET circuit, and I've found that those just sound really good on bass guitar. I have another pre with w FET DI, and it's the same kind of good sound. I think it's how the FET circuits bring out the mid-range and mid-lows.
With the DVC, most of the time I'm just using the DI without the limiter section, which on the DVC can be separated from the preamp, so it's like two units...preamp and limiter....and that's how I have them wired to my patch bay. Otherwise, they could be left internally coupled, so the preamp and limiter are more like a channel strip setup.
Anyway...I just patch the limiter in when I need it. I find that I like it without the limiter for most bass tracks, which gives the base a more defined tone...but sometimes I'll use it with the limiter patched in, and then I get a softer/smoother bass tone. It's an ELOP limiter circuit, which also adds to that softer/smoother character. So the limiter is just catching the top peaks, without touching the rest of the signal.
AFA input gain VS output...well, the input gain is what will drive the front end circuitry...so you can hit it harder or not, for a cleaner sound...where the output is just the overall level leaving the box, which you can set to unity to match your next piece of gear in the chain...or you can use the output to drive the next piece more or less for additional tone/character shaping.
Nola
Well-known member
I'm going to test it out some more now, but I'm still not sure what a good gain structure would be on this preamp. My initial feeling was that using the input too high would distort the signal, which is why I was thinking to maximize the output knob, then turn the input gain up as needed. But maybe that's why it sounds flabby...maybe I'm not getting enough thickness from the input gain? I'll test it out some more.
Chili
Site Moderator
Before getting the Ampeg VST plug, I used to DI my bass. I used a UAD 1176 limiter plug and some EQ. That was it. Sounded great.
That Great River preamp sounds cool. Without having used it before, set the input so you're close to max without clipping. Set the output to what is required for your interface input.
That Great River preamp sounds cool. Without having used it before, set the input so you're close to max without clipping. Set the output to what is required for your interface input.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
"Normally"...you would set your input gain...and then adjust the output.
Basically...set your output nominal, so you can hear what the input is doing.
Then set the input gain to where you like what's happening to the signal...then adjust your final output level.
I mean...you could just crank the output but you may not be hitting the sweet spot with the input gain when you do that, because your output signal will already be too hot.
Nola
Well-known member
Thanks guys, so cranking the gain more and rolling back the tone on the bass have helped the most. For some reason I had it backwards and thought cranking the gain would distort things so I was cranking the output more. What I found is cranking the output gives a cleaner/brighter and more "flabby" sound, to my ears at least. Cranking the gain gives a slightly dirty, rounder sound, especially with the tone down like 50%. It's less "flabby" but still sounds a little flabby, but the tone is much better. By flabby it's almost like the note falls apart instead of remains tight. I wonder if this is strings or the pickups...I know the MIM don't have the best pickups, but not sure if it's worth sinking $70 into upgrading them when the sound is like 90% where I want it.
