analog multitracker, MIDI-sync and PC ...

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antiseptor

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Hope i can get some help here. I got a Tascam 488MKII analog multitracker. It has MIDI-sync-capabilities (1 in , 1 out, both Chinch-sockets, not 5pol DIN). reading the manual doesnt help anything. it just says there are 2 connectors :(

i had the idea if connected somehow i could be able to copy track by track to my PC without any offsets (i left the 8th clean for sync-signals in spe ;)

is it somehow possible ? do i need any external hardware for this ? can it be done by a miditapesynchroniser or by software ? can it be done (hope) ... ?

any help very appreciated

thanks a lot

antiseptor
 
I'm not sure what capabilities that deck has built in. The common way is to get a SMPTE to Midi Time Code Convertor. You stripe one track on the analog deck with SMPTE and then send that track to the convertor. The convertor will have a MIDI output that goes to your DAW and the DAW will slave to the analog deck.

D-Man makes some cheap sync boxes.
 
theres the 8th track which can be used as normal track or if the sync-switch set it could be used for syncing ...

from the manual: THE SYNC IN JACK:
This typically accepts FSK-converted MIDI-signals from devices such as the MIDI-tape Synchronizer.

does that sound good ?

i had a look at some boxes (ebay). they send syncs but the connector doesnt fit. i dont think thats the worst problem. adapters may help that.
do you think if i stripe a channel with timecodes i can sync that with my pc (lets say MIDI cables (5-pins) on my joystickport ) ???
btw whats a "DAW" or as you call it ?
you see any chance for me to set things up ? :)

antiseptor
 
It sounds like that unit will actually slave to midi which is pretty uncommon for casette units. I'm afraid I really don't know how to do it with that unit and if it would really work well that way. I think FSK was an older type of sync signal but I could be mistaken.

The way I have recomended is a tried and true method and would only require a $100 interface like this http://www.midiman.com/products/midiman/BiP2x4.php.

Please reread my post because I am basically suggesting you ignore the built in sync capabilities and just use a SMPTE striped audio track. That way you don't have to buy any special hardware that may only work with your recorder and nothing else in the future.

I'm afraid that's all I can really offer on the subject without guessing or talking out of my ass. ;) I simply dont know that recorder specifically.

DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) can be a computer based recorder or all in one digital workstation. Both of these are petty easy to slave to another unit via midi TC.

Just to clarify it works like this-
8 track with one track of SMPTE
Send that SMPTE Audio Track to convertor interface
Send convertor midi signal to computer
Press play on 8track(Master) and the computer(slave) will sync to the 8track
 
ahhhh :)

that sounds interesting. means i now fully understand what you are talking about :) Thanks for the idea of ignoring the syncports

i had a pretty good idea, which i´ll try. And if this fails i need to get some hardware as you suggested.

my idea is just like that simple. i´ve got a program which lets me start recording as soon as some signal arrives.
I just put a click on the first track before the music starts and bounced this to all the tracks. This way i´m trying to record the tracks and put them together lateron. tried last night and it looks pretty good. Now the idea popped up that i could record track 1 with left channel of stereo and the 2nd one with right channel. So my drums are perfectly synched. Afterwards converting them to single stereotracks.
i know a pretty weird idea, but as the tape runs stable it may help it :D

thanks for all your help

cheers antiseptor
 
That method can work but the biggest problem is that most home analog recorders just don't have a consistent enough play speed to play the tracks back at exactly the same speed every time. Just a slight difference in speed is enough to mess up the timing after a minute or so and it can also affect the tuning.

It's worth giving it a shot and once the tracks are in the computer you can try breaking them up a little and sliding stuff around if you need to resync them after awhile.
 
Hey guys - If I remember correctly, the 488 wasn't high enough on the food-chain to be able to sync to external timecode - Im pretty sure all that sync IN port was for was to RECORD the FSK stuff from a sync box onto the 8th track. (The other thing it was probably for was to DEFEAT noise reduction on the sync track - if you DON'T defeat NR on the sync trac, usually sync doesn't work for shit. Hopefully, you will be able to turn the "sync"switch on to defeat NR on track 8, and STILL use the regular track input so you can record the sync signal from an external Non-Tascam box.)

I also don't remember if the normal Tascam box for the 488 was Smart FSK or not - if not, you can only start at the beginning of the song each time if you want to sync properly. Smart FSK gives you both MIDI clock AND Song Position Pointer. Boxes such as the JL Cooper PPS-1 will do that.BTW, FSK stands for Frequency Shift Keying, which is a way to record and play back computer-type square waves with an analog recorder. Smart FSK also records Song Position Pointer information with the sync signal, so any sequencer that supports SPP can lock to the playback ANYWHERE in the song.

By far the best solution is the one TRK mentioned - get a true SMPTE- to-MTC sync box, some have multi-port MIDI if you need more MIDI ports. Treat it just like another input, and record on channel 8. Be sure to turn that "sync" switch ON, which should disable Noise Reduction for track 8. As TRK said, this is a much more modern, reliable, and re-saleable way to accomplish lock-up, since you can sell a SMPTE box to almost anyone. Not so with out-dated, Manufacturer-specific FSK boxes...

If you take our advice and want some buying suggestions, c'mon back now... Steve
 
Thanks for explaining FSK. I haven't of that in years. It's pretty much gone isn't it?
 
Gone? I hope so. It was pretty cool when I looked at my Tascam 38 and wanted it to be a 48 track digital, but each improvement was really appreciated. First, "smart" FSK, where I didn't have to start at the top and forget what I was gonna do when/where I punched in - definitely better. I'm not even sure if you can buy a PPS-2 any more, I think that was the replacement for the PPS-1, just some minor tweaks. SMPTE/MTC makes things so much more portable - Just as long as you do your homework on SMPTE and the REAL way tapes are striped, sometimes even the big boys won't laugh at you... Steve
 
thanks for all your replies :)

i read loads of stuff on SMTPE now, and i feel more comfortable on this section now :)

the idea i had did do the job more or less. i recorded 2 tracks at once (L and R), did that twice, but on the next 2 tracks it wasnt in sync anymore. seems like my computer isnt getting along with this. as i placed some effects on it (compression, eq) the processorusage went up dramatically. I hope its my old SCSI-disk and will retry on another machine hoping for the best.

A friend of mine is cutting movies at work, and she told me if nothing helps, she´ll record the stuff into a computer (she can record 8 chans at once :)

thx again for all your replies, it definetly helped me a lot

antiseptor
 
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