Amp Prices... I'm outraged!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Easto
  • Start date Start date
I don't see $2500 as being too much for an amp. In 1982, I bought a Marshall JCM 800 for $1200. Almost 25 years later, a top of the line Marshall is still in the same ballpark. With the way everything else has gone up in price, we should be paying $4000 for any decent tube amp by now.

In 1982, a Les Paul standard was about $900, now they are $2500.

The bottom line is that guitars and guitar stuff is very inexpensive. If you were a serious violinist, you would think nothing of getting a $30,000 violin. Hell, the cheap ones that the grade school kids use are as expensive as mid-level guitars at Guitar Center.

Being a guitar player in this day and age is about the cheapest thing you can do musically. Look behind you at your drummer, he can easily have $1000 worth of cymbals around his kit. If he plays hard, he will go through $200-$300 worth of them a year. Sticks are $7 a pair and might only last a couple of songs. Even if he gets the GC special $500 kit, he still needed to get $300 worth of stands to make it work.

You are complaining about $2500 for the highest quality amp that will last for decades??!! Stop whining and get a job.
 
Let me throw my two cents in here.
Being in awe of the Fender Deluxe Reverb sound I looked into schematics and parts to build one. Bottom line I learned real fast why tube amps cost so much, let alone boutique ampmakers who pull out all the stops to make the best amp they can possibly make. Scraping the bottom of the barrel quality wise, all of the parts amounted to almost $400.00 U.S., not counting the cost of building a cabinet. All for a 22 watt single channel Deluxe Reverb clone, when a reissue would only cost $800.00
When you buy a mass-produced tube amp, you're getting a PC-board based amp, standard quality tubes, very often a solid state driven reverb, average quality speakers, and moderate quality control, and a lot of the money you are spending goes to corporate expenses, advertising, etc.
When you buy a boutique amp, you are getting (most of the time) a completely point-to-point HAND-WIRED board like they put in all amps 40 years ago, with carbon composition resistors (which are responsible for much of the myophonic distortion that is so pleasing to our ears), high quality caps like those made by Sprague, along with a true tube driven reverb, perfectly matched speakers for that amp, very often NOS tubes which are PRICEY these days. All built by a guy who risks his life dealing with the deadly voltages these circuits carry, and can only make so many per year and thus, makes enough money to get by pretty well, not get rich. Randall Smith didn't get rich by making his handmade Mark I's years ago, he got rich by starting a company (mesa) thats gone on to make mass-produced amps. Still light years ahead of most companies quality wise but still a mass produced amp that falls short of what defines a boutique amplifier.
 
goodbyebluesky said:
When you buy a mass-produced tube amp, you're getting a PC-board based amp........When you buy a boutique amp, you are getting (most of the time) a completely point-to-point HAND-WIRED board like they put in all amps 40 years ago, with carbon composition resistors (which are responsible for much of the myophonic distortion that is so pleasing to our ears), high quality caps like those made by Sprague, along with a true tube driven reverb
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-Handwired VS PCBoard has 100% nothing to do with it. Its all about the layout of the board and the quality of the parts...be it handwired or PCB. This is why all those old Marshalls that are 'handwired' are coveted by the rich rockstars....why? Because they found the good ones and bought them all up. Now all there is left is total crap because handwiring is like painting a portrait...no two will ever be alike.....so just because you like one, doesn't mean you will like the next.

-Sprague Orange Drops are over-rated. Hell, they weren't even around back in the days that the original amps were around it. So I find it funny how many people piss themselves over these yet strive for 'vintage' perfection.

-Tube reverb. Marshall has shit reverb for a reason...if you need a Marshall then you will be in an areana and that will provide all the reverb you need. If you just think you need a Marshall, you are usually playing such a small club that the sound quality is that of a tin shed anyways. (I made this point up....but we all know its true) :D :D :D :D :D
 
Well this thread really took off!

If you're a boutique amp maker and you can get someone to pay your price then go for it. If you have the trappings of the usual workplace and business then I'm sure you have to charge what you do to keep the doors open. No ones attacking anyone for doing that.

But I do know I can buy a Marshall 18watt kit and have a professional cabinet made and supplied and not run a cost of over $1100. This would also be using quality parts, be "handwired" and guaranteed by "me". In fact once I finish my 5E3 clone build I plan I building a Marshall 18 watter.

No one's denying that each amp has it's own signature and that a nicely crafted boutique may offer a signature tone that would be hard to recreate. But to charge some of the prices I see seems to be way over the top.
 
Easto said:
But I do know I can buy a Marshall 18watt kit and have a professional cabinet made and supplied and not run a cost of over $1100.................But to charge some of the prices I see seems to be way over the top.
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Now include the cost of your time at a reasonable hourly wage.


Now double that total since standard markup is 100%. Yes, double the cost of production to get the sale price. That is almost anything you can buy in any store.

So at $1100 for parts.....that is $2200. I think we can get another hundred out of wages and the rest from marketing and maintaining of websites.....packaging.....maybe even shipping to stores if its a comapny like Bogner or the likes that has distribution.
 
Easto said:
No one's denying that each amp has it's own signature and that a nicely crafted boutique may offer a signature tone that would be hard to recreate.
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Ummm...when each amp has its own 'signature' sound, that is what most people call 'shit quality control'.
Just look up "mexican vs american strat" on the search feature. There is a lot of bitch about a lack of quality control....samething with handmade Gibson LesPauls (or so some people say)....and not one person has ever argued its because they are just individual 'signature' sounds....or have a 'signature' playablility.
 
What I meant my signature tone was that a Bogner will sound like a Bogner, a Aiken will sound like a Aiken etc. I also agree what your saying about how the price is calculated. Personally, I'm not going to pay that kind of money for an amp.
 
Maybe I've been playing too long...seems like prices have dropped to me. I've been playing for about 20 years and I know when I started a Peavey Bandit 112 was right at $400...and it sounded like shit. The Peavey HQ is about 3 miles from me, so I know its not a matter of importing...my second amp, a Peavey Stereo Chorus 212, which also sounded like shit...with its "digital reverb" and built in chorus effects was over $800. Maybe its the internet, but prices have started to fall here...they have some competition now...My wife's brother has been playing like 2 years and has a PRS and a Peavey Triple XXX head and Cab...be paid way less for that stuff than I did my Epiphone Les Paul and Crap ass Peavey gear.

Why would you want something you haven't personally played on anyway...perhaps because its "botique"...perhaps the name....perhaps thats why it costs so much.

Just my opinion.

6
 
I own a number of "boutique" guitars and amps, and TO ME they are worth every penny I have paid for them. I also own a number of less expensive amps and guitars and value them for what they do. My tweed Blues Jr., while a great amp for what it was designed to be, does not come close to any of my Fuchs amps. Come to think of it, my Roland Micro-Cube is good for what it was designed to do also. Same deal with my guitars. My Thorn guitars are exactly what I want, as are my PRS guitars. Doesn't mean that I don't like my Gibson and Fender guitars though. Is a custom shop Fender or Gibson better than a stock model? Depends on what you're looking for. All I know is that I have played just most manufacturers amps, and playing my Fuchs is exactly the sound and feel I have been looking for since I started playing 33 years, and G-d knows how many amps ago.
 
Outlaws said:
Now if some company wants to start using stainless steel, that would be awsome.
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stainless steel and 500V dont mix very well
 
I am one of those you have said prices his hand built amps too high,....


I have been doing the research for aprox 5 years,... and aquiring NOS parts and tubes,... and building amps for the last three of those five years,... Myself and my partner have produced several experimental models since we first started, and it is obvious to us now that while doing all the research and studying how the sound gets processed, etc we concluded that simple is better,... and more reliable,... and that all in all the higher the quality of the pieces that become a finished amp,... the better sounding it is...

If you don't think research and developing the skills to do it all is worth anything,... or the time it takes to do that,.... then you must not like the labor end of things, and have a management attitude of quick cheap production is better than serious efforts to be the best....

I feel for you man,... I know that in this modern day when all things are rising in price,... not the least of which is the shipping of parts and supplies,....it is hard to justify some of the prices on goods you see.....but , you must admit that in the music business,... there are fringes where folks like me are building stuff based on all the past successes of people like Leo Fender,... and Les Paul,... to name a couple of the pioneers....and I am proud to say that in the end,.... I don't do it for the money really, more for the love of the experience,... and after several thousand dollars of expense,... I have yet to recover more than 15% of my costs so far,.... but I still am tinkering and tweaking designs so what I build will last far longer than I do.....

Hopefully there will always be those who feel the same,.... and contributions along those lines will keep the ball rolling for the sake of the music.....


Steve
 
AlfredB said:
stainless steel and 500V dont mix very well
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Well, plenty of things don't mix with 500V too well, but I can't see a reason for not using a particular metal for a chassis, except I'd imagine it should be non-magnetic.

Plenty of people make stainless steel amp chassis. It is supposed to keep out magnetic interference better. It's expensive and hard to work with, though, apparently.

ps- thanks for your thoughts, Steve.
 
We used stainless for our first 6 or 8 amps,... and it works fine,.... not very easy to work with tho,... very tough to cut, and drill....

went thru 3 metal cutting blades on my 4" side grinder cutting out 5 chassis...

EXTREMELY hard to bend,..

went to a lighter gage for the next two,...that worked much better, then found a good source for aluminum, which will be what we build our next few out of...

still not magnetic,.. and much easier to cut and drill,... I have posted some photos of construction etc in an RP forum, if anyone wants to see....

slowed down production a bit this fall, as the other guy I work with is sick,....

Hopefully, right back at it next spring,....

Might get ahead this winter by building some more cabinets,... I do have several speakers that need to go in boxes.....which, by the way, are made from 3/4" maple plywood, with 1/2" birch for the fronts and backs,...Fairly expensive wood,....




Steve
 
Here's my rule of thumb. If you feel that something is selling for way more than it is worth to you... don't buy it. It's really that simple. A head might be $2,500, but to somebody, it's worth it. I don't know if I would spend $2,500 on any head right now considering how little I play and that I am currently not playing live. If I start playing live again, I may very well consider getting a more versatile amp or a few amps to get the sounds that I want.

There IS a point, however, where marketing or sheer over-indulgence makes a product more expensive than it really needs to be. Do I care if the amp chassis is chrome plated and buffed with the builders own nutsack? No. Do I care if the head and cabinet are covered in lemur fur and if the grille cloth is made from blonde virgin hair? No.

When you get to that level of insanity, you are paying for a look, or you are paying for something to be a collectible. I am a bit guilty of it myself seeing as my Mesa Triple Rectifier has the chrome chassis option, and that my 4x12 cabinet has diamond plate on the sides.

Was it expensive? Yes. Was it worth the extra expense? I think so. Was I stupid enough to buy them new and pay a premium for both? God no. I spent $900 for the head and just under $1000 for the cabinet (shipped to my door in mint condition).

While I know a Mesa isn't really a boutique amp, still, any custom superfluous additions to any high-end guitar or amp is really just icing on the cake. It doesn't perform better, it will just have better resale value and may become a highly sought after collectible down the road. Who knows.

Look at Way Huge effect pedals. Now that they're discontinued, everybody wants them, and they're charging and arm and a leg for them too.
 
It always amazes me that people will spend $30K on a car, which over here in Orstraya gets you not much, which in ten years time will be worth about $3000 as a trade in without even questioning the logic and numbers, but quibble about the prices of "expensive" amps and guitars - this is your life man - this is what you DO - buy the appropriate tools - your boutique amp will hold its value as will your expensive guitars. How can you lose?
 
The Fuchs are nice amps, but he really should change the font on his logos. ;) :D ;) :D ;) :D :eek:


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
ummm......what are you thinking!! All you need is Kustom Solid state heads!!!
I picked up a 1968 head, it sounded great with a 15inch. Theyre said to be the best solid state amps out there, and many say they are better than half of the tube amps out there. Really, they are f**king cheap, and very reliable and underestimated. You'll find a head by itself between $100 and $150 no problemo. Always by the seperate pieces, because as soon as you see a head and cab together, theyre automaticly $700 and plus. f**k exspensive crappy marshall crap! I like cheap marshall amps though, underestimated as well/hell.
 
sixways said:
Maybe I've been playing too long...seems like prices have dropped to me. I've been playing for about 20 years and I know when I started a Peavey Bandit 112 was right at $400...and it sounded like shit. The Peavey HQ is about 3 miles from me, so I know its not a matter of importing...my second amp, a Peavey Stereo Chorus 212, which also sounded like shit...with its "digital reverb" and built in chorus effects was over $800. Maybe its the internet, but prices have started to fall here...they have some competition now...My wife's brother has been playing like 2 years and has a PRS and a Peavey Triple XXX head and Cab...be paid way less for that stuff than I did my Epiphone Les Paul and Crap ass Peavey gear.

Why would you want something you haven't personally played on anyway...perhaps because its "botique"...perhaps the name....perhaps thats why it costs so much.

Just my opinion.

6
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I actually hate the marshall name, but i bought one anyways. A little 30 watt amp. Bought it because it was the loudest and most reliable sounding thing I could find for the price, and i got sick of playing guitar on my bass amp! But anyways, f**k buying something because of the name!
 
I all due respect, I cannot agree. A handbuilt, point to point wired amps with its own signature tone has value to many of us.

Some people will be happy playing a mass produced imported guitar through a factory built amp---and that is their choice. But, for those that appreciate the nuances and attributes of an amp that is built from the best components there is a big difference.

I see little reason to make blanket subjective statements about these things.
 
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