amra
Well-known member
metalhead28 said:
Amen, brother.
I usually set mine at 8 or so, but the point is that if you know your shit, you can always get a good metal tone out of a moderate to high gain tube amp.
Amen, brother.
I usually set mine at 8 or so, but the point is that if you know your shit, you can always get a good metal tone out of a moderate to high gain tube amp.
reel buzzer
New member
Amp for metal 50 watt tube over 100 watt
I had both and found that the 50 watt Marshall Tube Head JCM 800 sounded better. The 50 watt has a more distant tone when you stand in front of the cabinet, better feedbacks that are pleasing instead of piercing. The hair raising/stage vibrating effect is smooth, warm, and less harsh on the 50 watt. It drives the speakers with a boom, and its gain is not distorting the sound so much to kill all the harmonic overtones. It has a big, sweet distortion sound.
But you might be going for a different metal sound, one that is tiny, compacted, dry with no mids, so for that refer to the other posts - I'm not an expert on that sound because I spent so much time trying to get the previous sound.
Here are 3 examples of two different amps recorded:
Marshall 50 watt to analog tape:
Download:
Streaming
http://www.jerrylockamy.com/Media/youthink.m3u
Marshall 50 watt to ADAT
Download
Streaming
http://www.jerrylockamy.com/Media/inmyhead.m3u
Mesa Boogie Tube Preamp to analog tape
Download
Streaming
http://www.jerrylockamy.com/Media/funkstreet.m3u
Good luck
I had both and found that the 50 watt Marshall Tube Head JCM 800 sounded better. The 50 watt has a more distant tone when you stand in front of the cabinet, better feedbacks that are pleasing instead of piercing. The hair raising/stage vibrating effect is smooth, warm, and less harsh on the 50 watt. It drives the speakers with a boom, and its gain is not distorting the sound so much to kill all the harmonic overtones. It has a big, sweet distortion sound.
But you might be going for a different metal sound, one that is tiny, compacted, dry with no mids, so for that refer to the other posts - I'm not an expert on that sound because I spent so much time trying to get the previous sound.
Here are 3 examples of two different amps recorded:
Marshall 50 watt to analog tape:
Download:
Streaming
http://www.jerrylockamy.com/Media/youthink.m3u
Marshall 50 watt to ADAT
Download
Streaming
http://www.jerrylockamy.com/Media/inmyhead.m3u
Mesa Boogie Tube Preamp to analog tape
Download
Streaming
http://www.jerrylockamy.com/Media/funkstreet.m3u
Good luck
C
chamelious
www.thesunexplodes.com
Well its certainly true enough i've never played a really nice amp. And judging by their prices i probably never will, so never mind!
Farview
Well-known member
Go with a used one. It doesn't have to be a marshall but getting a quality amplifier will change your life.chamelious said:
P
Peavey Renown
New member
5150 vs 5150 II
I heard both through cabinets with Vintage 30's.. I only heard the II a couple of times though.. I never really researched it.. I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong though... Since ya know.. I am and all that..
Sonixx said:
I heard both through cabinets with Vintage 30's.. I only heard the II a couple of times though.. I never really researched it.. I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong though... Since ya know.. I am and all that..
P
Peavey Renown
New member
Farview said:
He's right.. It doesn't have to be a Marshall.. and you don't have to crank the gain on your amp to get a good metal tone, the 5150's are fairly cheap used.. I'd stay away from Crate.. and Mesa.. I'd go with a used Marshall or a Peavey.. with the Marshall amps, they don't all have incredible, staggering, gut-churning high gain.. but you can put a good stomp box in front of one and it will sound amazing as long as the amp is good.. Marshall Plexi's are awesome with pedals in front of them but they're kind of pricey.. Since you seem so dead against Marshall, I'd go with a Peavey.
legionserial
New member
I have to say I'm completely sold on Marshalls. Both the Marshalls (an old Valvestate 8080 and my new AVT150h) I have got, get exactly the tone I want. Which is metal. I would agree with Amps nowadays you dont need to put the gain on full for the distortion. On the AVT I only put it up to 7.5 - 8 and it sounds great.
In fact the very first amp I had was some 15watt no name thing with nowhere near as much gain as I would have liked. But I still managed to fiddle a nice tone out of it. Because thats the sort of thing I spend a lot of time over. I think to some extent its a case of a bad workman blaming his tools, not always tho. All I know is I love the sound of both my marshalls and I wouldnt change them. I dont give a toss to be honest whether people view the AVT as 'not a real marshall', just cos it only has one tube. I couldn't give a toss if it had 'Wal-Mart' written on the front of it and a band of pixies inside it making the sound. It sounds nice in my opinion and the opinion of the various people who hear my music, so who cares.
And as for 'when was the last time you saw a metal band use a Marshall'...um there this little band called Slayer. Not sure whether you may have heard of them or not? But they rock, and they generally stick to Marshalls as far as I know.
In fact the very first amp I had was some 15watt no name thing with nowhere near as much gain as I would have liked. But I still managed to fiddle a nice tone out of it. Because thats the sort of thing I spend a lot of time over. I think to some extent its a case of a bad workman blaming his tools, not always tho. All I know is I love the sound of both my marshalls and I wouldnt change them. I dont give a toss to be honest whether people view the AVT as 'not a real marshall', just cos it only has one tube. I couldn't give a toss if it had 'Wal-Mart' written on the front of it and a band of pixies inside it making the sound. It sounds nice in my opinion and the opinion of the various people who hear my music, so who cares.
And as for 'when was the last time you saw a metal band use a Marshall'...um there this little band called Slayer. Not sure whether you may have heard of them or not? But they rock, and they generally stick to Marshalls as far as I know.
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
Hey Legion,
I may have said that an AVT was not a "real marshall" but I never meant to be slagging on anyone who dug the sound of them, sorry bro. I guess I really meant that if the thread starter hated the sound of his AVT than he should not discount a Tube Marshall because they really do sound totally different.
By the way, I played through an old valvestate years ago for a really long time and I still think it was a good sounding amp. However, as someone stated earlier, buying my first quality tube amp really did change my life!
I may have said that an AVT was not a "real marshall" but I never meant to be slagging on anyone who dug the sound of them, sorry bro. I guess I really meant that if the thread starter hated the sound of his AVT than he should not discount a Tube Marshall because they really do sound totally different.
By the way, I played through an old valvestate years ago for a really long time and I still think it was a good sounding amp. However, as someone stated earlier, buying my first quality tube amp really did change my life!
legionserial
New member
Oh I wasn't, like, backlashing at that. Opinions are opinions, and what appeals to you musically is a totally different kettle of fish from the next guy. I mean basically music is art. And art is about perception. An artist will paint a picture with tone and expression that they like and will apeal to them. Someone else may hate it. The same with music. There is no right way and no wrong way. No right equipment and no wrong equipment. Thats why I love music. Its like an infinitely moldable piece of play-doh. There really is no right metal tone. I mean for example, Lamb of God and Machine Head are both metal bands, they both kick ass, and they have very very different tones. I think really rather than being a quest to find the best metal tone or whatever, it should be a quest to find the tone you love most. Even if it doesnt apply to conventions. As long as you want to accomplish what you want to acheive.
And totally I agree with you about tube amps. If I had the money I'd buy a dual rec right now. But I tried some stuff, and the AVT didnt cost too much. And after having spent years using the old valvestate, its become something I trust and almost swear by. However, if I had my way I'd have a whole range of different amps anyway, but I guess thats the same for most of us.
Damn money limiting art. All musicians should get an "I'm an artist, dont stand in my way" discount card...
And totally I agree with you about tube amps. If I had the money I'd buy a dual rec right now. But I tried some stuff, and the AVT didnt cost too much. And after having spent years using the old valvestate, its become something I trust and almost swear by. However, if I had my way I'd have a whole range of different amps anyway, but I guess thats the same for most of us.
Damn money limiting art. All musicians should get an "I'm an artist, dont stand in my way" discount card...
amra
Well-known member
Hey I was just making the same point in another thread (maybe it was earlier in this thread..lol)
Some people make art with a soft paint brush, some people make art with a stick of charcoal. Both can produce incredible art. For the people who like looking at charcoal drawings, they FEEL something when they look at one. Someone who is into oil painting might not get it. Doesn't mean either is not art or not beautiful. It is all about the perception of the person who sees something, hears something or makes something.
The great thing is, if you are talented at all, and put some emotion into what you are creating, SOMEONE out there will feel it, and have a personal connection with it. I think that is the key to making music. Make what you are feeling, make it with emotion, people will connect with you. Your guitar tone is just your brush. or charcoal stick. or finger with paint on it....lol.
Some people make art with a soft paint brush, some people make art with a stick of charcoal. Both can produce incredible art. For the people who like looking at charcoal drawings, they FEEL something when they look at one. Someone who is into oil painting might not get it. Doesn't mean either is not art or not beautiful. It is all about the perception of the person who sees something, hears something or makes something.
The great thing is, if you are talented at all, and put some emotion into what you are creating, SOMEONE out there will feel it, and have a personal connection with it. I think that is the key to making music. Make what you are feeling, make it with emotion, people will connect with you. Your guitar tone is just your brush. or charcoal stick. or finger with paint on it....lol.
B
brandondrury
New member
I don't see why all these metal guitar players are obsessed with gain. Your favorite records with huge tone don't use half the gain you think they do. I've never needed to take my 5150 past 9 o'clock on the gain knob for the heaviest tone imaginable.
Have you "gain" guys ever put a mic in front of 5150 with the gain on 10? How much gain do you need? What about "tone"?
Brandon
Sonixx
New member
your point is well taken... but I really find it hard to believe 9:00 is enough gain for the heaviest tone possible.brandondrury said:
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
brandondrury said:
Apparently you didn't read the rest of that post or any of my other posts on this thread. And the only time you need that gain is for leads....and for that it does help. For rhythm I dont even begin to approach all the gain my amps are capable of.
amra
Well-known member
A few things to keep in mind here:
Some people on this board, think AC/DC's tone is the heaviest they have ever heard. Those people have no concept of what we mean here when we are talking about mega gain.
The TYPE of gain, and where it is at your instrument/effects chain makes a big difference. If you have a guitar with weak pickups (ALOT of guitars out there are like this) you will have to compensate with more gain in your amp than someone with real hot pickups. Pickups alone make a HUGE difference. This accounts for some people feeling like '9' is enough, where other people wish they had '11' on their amps. Low gain amps like the JCM800 usually need a gain boost to get to mega gain levels, no matter what pickups you have. High gain models like the JCM2000 and the 5150 II probably don't.
You can use a lot more gain playing live than you do recording in the studio. When you are playing live, and you can really crank it, up you can tap that extra saturation from the power section of your amp. People in the crowd react to the power of your sound. This doesn't always translate via recording. That's why live performances are usually more exciting. You can capture the sound, but you can't capture the POWER. That same amount of gain in the studio usually sounds thin and "clippy", for lack of a better word. So recording gain vs. performing gain = day and night.
Some people on this board, think AC/DC's tone is the heaviest they have ever heard. Those people have no concept of what we mean here when we are talking about mega gain.
The TYPE of gain, and where it is at your instrument/effects chain makes a big difference. If you have a guitar with weak pickups (ALOT of guitars out there are like this) you will have to compensate with more gain in your amp than someone with real hot pickups. Pickups alone make a HUGE difference. This accounts for some people feeling like '9' is enough, where other people wish they had '11' on their amps. Low gain amps like the JCM800 usually need a gain boost to get to mega gain levels, no matter what pickups you have. High gain models like the JCM2000 and the 5150 II probably don't.
You can use a lot more gain playing live than you do recording in the studio. When you are playing live, and you can really crank it, up you can tap that extra saturation from the power section of your amp. People in the crowd react to the power of your sound. This doesn't always translate via recording. That's why live performances are usually more exciting. You can capture the sound, but you can't capture the POWER. That same amount of gain in the studio usually sounds thin and "clippy", for lack of a better word. So recording gain vs. performing gain = day and night.
punkin
Univalve & Avatar Speaks
Full on right!
My Peavey Wolfie and the JEM have some very hot Pups...with my new low power recoring set up, I find that I keep the guitar out much lower these days.
With my Mesa, I had my distortion pedal set quite high and my guitar turned up all the way to get more drive to the input of the Mesa amp. It seemed that I couldn't get enough input drive especially when trying to keep the volume down. Now with my smaller set up (amp and speakers) I find that to get that same or similar sound, all the input drive stuff is turned down...smaller amp requiring less input drive to get the sound I'm looking for.
The only thing I'm not getting any more is the speaker break up but I'm willing to live with that for recording purposes.
My Peavey Wolfie and the JEM have some very hot Pups...with my new low power recoring set up, I find that I keep the guitar out much lower these days.
With my Mesa, I had my distortion pedal set quite high and my guitar turned up all the way to get more drive to the input of the Mesa amp. It seemed that I couldn't get enough input drive especially when trying to keep the volume down. Now with my smaller set up (amp and speakers) I find that to get that same or similar sound, all the input drive stuff is turned down...smaller amp requiring less input drive to get the sound I'm looking for.
The only thing I'm not getting any more is the speaker break up but I'm willing to live with that for recording purposes.
C
chamelious
www.thesunexplodes.com
Argh god its the end of the world!
I LIKE TO USE SO MUCH GAIN THAT WHATEVER NOTE YOU PLAY IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS:
MEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I think he should all worship tony iommi, he wrote some bloody heavey riffs. Iron maiden, what a heavy riff.
Chords have 2 notes in them.
I like teapots.
I LIKE TO USE SO MUCH GAIN THAT WHATEVER NOTE YOU PLAY IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS:
MEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I think he should all worship tony iommi, he wrote some bloody heavey riffs. Iron maiden, what a heavy riff.
Chords have 2 notes in them.
I like teapots.
punkin
Univalve & Avatar Speaks
Well...ok then but what's up with the teapots? 
C
chamelious
www.thesunexplodes.com
I dont know i just like them thats all. I like paper too.
Did you know that red is actually a smell??
Also they just found out that 7 is actually a letter.
Did you know that red is actually a smell??
Also they just found out that 7 is actually a letter.
punkin
Univalve & Avatar Speaks
Ummm...I know this guy...I think he might be able to help you sort out some of those feelings you've been having lately. Do you ever get the feeling that everybody is watching you? 
Farview
Well-known member
When people are out to get you, paranoia is just good thinking.
