G
Greg_L
Banned
Boom goes the dynamite.
G
Greg_L
Banned
I'm gonna start posting my songs one raw track at a time and leave it up to yall to make your own mixes that satisfy your own sonic needs.
R
RAMI
Guest
What a completely retarded premise for a thread.
People are asking you to critique what they consider to be a package...a finished product, in their minds. If you can't judge a mix because it's been "mastered" then you shouldn't be listening to music. Just because someone puts their song through their version of "mastering" doesn't change whether it was played, tracked, or recorded well.
This is really stupid.
People are asking you to critique what they consider to be a package...a finished product, in their minds. If you can't judge a mix because it's been "mastered" then you shouldn't be listening to music. Just because someone puts their song through their version of "mastering" doesn't change whether it was played, tracked, or recorded well.
This is really stupid.
R
RAMI
Guest
I was going to buy a CD today. But, then I realized that any CD I might go out and buy has already been mastered. How the hell am I going to decide if I like it or not?!?!
G
Greg_L
Banned
That's quite a conundrum. You're just gonna have to quit listening to and recording music alltogether. I know i sure will. This thread has opened my eyes!
jghungerford
New member
Well now... Forgive me father for I know not what I do. I didn't mean to anger the hounds of the MP3Clinic. I was under the impression that I was listening to works in progress. Nothing gave me the impression that most of this work was indeed finished.
Music snob?? Well I guess I may be one because if the sonic landscapes of choice on here is poorly rendered late 90's throw-back rock anthems and the occasional dalliance of punk rock. Time and time again I see well conceived and original musical compositions get swept under the carpet with only two or three comments one of the being me or kcearl.
But then some one posts some ridiculous mutant of bruce dickinson meets all the members of staind schlock and it trends for a week straight. DAMN. and I love me some Maiden.
Honestly, I never started this topic as a troll but I guess it touched a nerve. So here's the last of what i have to say. There's only two people on this forum that seem to have a clue. and I haven't been here long. Kcearl is actually capable of forming an intelligent musical thought, and greg seems as though he is the only one thats not tone deaf and create a mix that isn't flat as the sidewalk.
Music snob?? Well I guess I may be one because if the sonic landscapes of choice on here is poorly rendered late 90's throw-back rock anthems and the occasional dalliance of punk rock. Time and time again I see well conceived and original musical compositions get swept under the carpet with only two or three comments one of the being me or kcearl.
But then some one posts some ridiculous mutant of bruce dickinson meets all the members of staind schlock and it trends for a week straight. DAMN. and I love me some Maiden.
Honestly, I never started this topic as a troll but I guess it touched a nerve. So here's the last of what i have to say. There's only two people on this forum that seem to have a clue. and I haven't been here long. Kcearl is actually capable of forming an intelligent musical thought, and greg seems as though he is the only one thats not tone deaf and create a mix that isn't flat as the sidewalk.
Chili
Site Moderator
One of the reasons someone would want to post their song after "Finalizing" is because they may eventually want to put it on a CD or in an album of some sort and they are looking for a critique of how it would sound then. And as you pointed out, Mastering/Finalizing a song changes the mix, but that's the kind of feedback people might want to hear. I've seen many discussions on a snare not popping after mastering when it did before mastering and how to avoid smashing a mix. I think it's valid to post your song as you want it to be heard.
Then again, we do get a lot of people who post just to get clicks on their page. I'll raise my hand, I used to do that.
Then again, we do get a lot of people who post just to get clicks on their page. I'll raise my hand, I used to do that.
G
Greg_L
Banned
kcearl
I see deaf people
I think more folks should listen to jghungerford, seems like he has his head screwed on and is very much mod/admin material..
G
Greg_L
Banned
He's an asset to this community for sure.
kcearl
I see deaf people
amen.........
true-eurt
Maneater
Well..I hate to bust your bubble but you're wrong. There are several guys around here with a clue. Joey, Strat, Rami, RayC, XLR, Supercreep just to mention a few around her have great musical/recording/listening skills..and also intelligent. They've also put in their time in the mp3 clinic helping others as well as being helped.
This is a home recording forum..a place to learn..and that is what the mp3 clinic is all about.
This isn't a showcase for those in need of ego-feed....again, it is a learning forum .
You will be listening to unfinished product as well as *finished*. This is the place to ask for thoughts and suggestions, not only on mix, but performance and even arrangement.
Those who are looking for page clicks are usually those, who come here only to post their songs..who never take the time to help others. It isn't hard to figure those out.
Just because someone posts songs on soundclick doesn't mean they are looking for clicks either.
As has been said, if you don't want to listen to something posted, then don't...but don't come onto a forum you know nothing about or it's members and spout off, expecting no backlash.
All members are welkom to post their mixes in this clinic, no matter what skill level they are at..posting here will help take them to another level if they listen to sound advice and apply it.
R
RAMI
Guest
rayc
retroreprobate
Where will it end?
Oh, man: you put a soupcon of reverb on your master bus! I'm not listening to that!
My most recent song in this forum is rather low on volume due to quiet tracking so I threw a limiter on it. Now it sounds loud enough to listen to without any effort. I did that for the listener's benefit. AND stated the facts.
Does that count as mastering? (the PRESET on the limiter is called CD Master)
I usually present works in progress as I lack the skill & confidence of some others.
The audio posts I don't listen to are those on mspace or utub because that audio is so below appropriate standards that it's painful. AND I don't listen to audio posts by folk who don't contribute with any sense of community.
Oh &...
What bit rate to uplaod at?... Read on - I nicked this from the ARS Technica article:
Low bit rate winner (128 kbs):
Fraunhofer. It was no contest. While not CD quality, the FhG encoder was sonically the least offensive. And with its superior measurements, it clearly beat out the other encoders at 128 kbs. If you have a tiny hard drive or a portable MP3 player with only 32 MB of memory, this is the encoder to use.
High bit rate winners (192 and 256 kbs):
Fraunhofer, LAME, Blade, and Xing (in order of preference). At the higher bit rates they don’t all sound the same, but the encoders in general were very listenable. I found the Xing high frequency measurements a bit worrisome, but at 256 kbs I thought the Xing encoder sounded as good as the rest. If you are "Napsterizing" some music, I think 192 kbs is a good compromise between sound quality and download times. For my personal MP3 CD-R disks, I encode at 256 kbs. This is still more than 7 CDs on one CD-R.
BUT - for critical listening it seems 320 is the go - the tester could tell the difference between CD & MP3 BUT the encoding was done better & there were fewer artifacts.
Oh, man: you put a soupcon of reverb on your master bus! I'm not listening to that!
My most recent song in this forum is rather low on volume due to quiet tracking so I threw a limiter on it. Now it sounds loud enough to listen to without any effort. I did that for the listener's benefit. AND stated the facts.
Does that count as mastering? (the PRESET on the limiter is called CD Master)
I usually present works in progress as I lack the skill & confidence of some others.
The audio posts I don't listen to are those on mspace or utub because that audio is so below appropriate standards that it's painful. AND I don't listen to audio posts by folk who don't contribute with any sense of community.
Oh &...
What bit rate to uplaod at?... Read on - I nicked this from the ARS Technica article:
Low bit rate winner (128 kbs):
Fraunhofer. It was no contest. While not CD quality, the FhG encoder was sonically the least offensive. And with its superior measurements, it clearly beat out the other encoders at 128 kbs. If you have a tiny hard drive or a portable MP3 player with only 32 MB of memory, this is the encoder to use.
High bit rate winners (192 and 256 kbs):
Fraunhofer, LAME, Blade, and Xing (in order of preference). At the higher bit rates they don’t all sound the same, but the encoders in general were very listenable. I found the Xing high frequency measurements a bit worrisome, but at 256 kbs I thought the Xing encoder sounded as good as the rest. If you are "Napsterizing" some music, I think 192 kbs is a good compromise between sound quality and download times. For my personal MP3 CD-R disks, I encode at 256 kbs. This is still more than 7 CDs on one CD-R.
BUT - for critical listening it seems 320 is the go - the tester could tell the difference between CD & MP3 BUT the encoding was done better & there were fewer artifacts.
heatmiser
mr. green christmas
I like this thread...a roller coaster of emotions.
I am relieved by all of the responses to the OP's mastering question, as I pretty much always have added some eq and limiting to my mixdown before submitting it for review here, even though I don't consider it "mastering" per se and have no real knowledge of what I'm doing. I just think it sounds better that way and I want it to sound the best I can before letting these folks hear it. Admittedly, this probably has more to do with a desire to have the material liked than to learn, but I really don't think it gets in the way of genuine criticism. If I were to post more "raw" mixes without this final stage of processing, I honestly don't think it would reveal a drastically different mix.
As for the snob part, newer members have from time to time leveled similar criticism of this place...too much "classic rock", too many old people, not enough feedback for newer folks or people with stellar mixes. Maybe there's some truth to that depending on your perspective, but why don't people who feel that way simply generate their own content here and give tons of feedback to each other? It isn't up to KC and Greg to review every single thing that comes down the pike (although sometimes it feels like KC does). Merely dropping a file in here (regardless of how amazing a track it may be) won't necessarily generate a lot of interest if you are an unknown quantity likely to be never heard from again.
From my vantage point, this isn't intended to be a strict meritocracy where the best mixes get the most feedback. If anything, it can be just the opposite sometimes where people respond to something they think they can help with - especially someone they already know from experience will be receptive to that help and will likely return the favor in the future.
I think this is more of a community of people trying to help each other and hopefully enjoy each other's music. Naturally, as people grow more familiar with each other over time, they tend to respond more to those peoples' posts. The volume of feedback one gets doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the quality of the mix or the style of music (although it certainly can), there are just so many other factors at work.
This whole dynamic kind of makes sense to me. I'm sure there must be other sites where someone can have their music more objectively rated or whatever if that's what they want, right? Anyway...I love this place. Just felt like spewing some clinc observations I guess. That is all.
I am relieved by all of the responses to the OP's mastering question, as I pretty much always have added some eq and limiting to my mixdown before submitting it for review here, even though I don't consider it "mastering" per se and have no real knowledge of what I'm doing. I just think it sounds better that way and I want it to sound the best I can before letting these folks hear it. Admittedly, this probably has more to do with a desire to have the material liked than to learn, but I really don't think it gets in the way of genuine criticism. If I were to post more "raw" mixes without this final stage of processing, I honestly don't think it would reveal a drastically different mix.
As for the snob part, newer members have from time to time leveled similar criticism of this place...too much "classic rock", too many old people, not enough feedback for newer folks or people with stellar mixes. Maybe there's some truth to that depending on your perspective, but why don't people who feel that way simply generate their own content here and give tons of feedback to each other? It isn't up to KC and Greg to review every single thing that comes down the pike (although sometimes it feels like KC does). Merely dropping a file in here (regardless of how amazing a track it may be) won't necessarily generate a lot of interest if you are an unknown quantity likely to be never heard from again.
From my vantage point, this isn't intended to be a strict meritocracy where the best mixes get the most feedback. If anything, it can be just the opposite sometimes where people respond to something they think they can help with - especially someone they already know from experience will be receptive to that help and will likely return the favor in the future.
I think this is more of a community of people trying to help each other and hopefully enjoy each other's music. Naturally, as people grow more familiar with each other over time, they tend to respond more to those peoples' posts. The volume of feedback one gets doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the quality of the mix or the style of music (although it certainly can), there are just so many other factors at work.
This whole dynamic kind of makes sense to me. I'm sure there must be other sites where someone can have their music more objectively rated or whatever if that's what they want, right? Anyway...I love this place. Just felt like spewing some clinc observations I guess. That is all.
kcearl
I see deaf people
all the other guys mentioned are rubbish..I cant believe you all had to dial a mod
M
Murdersgalore
New member
Just like any community, you decide your level of involvement. Like a tribe. You can be the chief or one of his entourage or one of the drones. If you don't like pre-squished mixes than don't fuck with them. I put death metal shit in here for Christ's sake. Do you think I get shit-tons of comments on it? You gotta take it all for what it is. A 65 year old dude critiquing my shit and telling me that the guitar sucks. You get that kinda thing. Like me critiquing a country track. I really just don't understand the purpose of this thread in the first place.
You gotta realize there are really four types of users here....
1. The pros and semi-pros that actually get paid to do studio work.
2. The up-and-comers that are following the pros.
3. People like me who just learned how to record shit as a means to an end.
4. People who put their fruity loops beats up on their ilifefacepage and say "yo I be cuttin' a demo".
Take the time. You'll soon figure out who's who.
You gotta realize there are really four types of users here....
1. The pros and semi-pros that actually get paid to do studio work.
2. The up-and-comers that are following the pros.
3. People like me who just learned how to record shit as a means to an end.
4. People who put their fruity loops beats up on their ilifefacepage and say "yo I be cuttin' a demo".
Take the time. You'll soon figure out who's who.
heatmiser
mr. green christmas
I would like to apply for the witch doctor position if it is still available..?
Chili
Site Moderator
I've got Joey's CD, well 2 actually, I've got Rami's CD, I've got XLR's CD and I've got SuperCreep's CD. Strat helped me with mine and RayC helped Joey with his. This is a pretty damned good community!!!!
I like this thread. Thanks JG!!
rayc
retroreprobate
I have both of Joey's that have been available in my time around the forum, three of RAMI's, Both of LPC/Supercreeps, 1 by XLR, 2 by Wiggy, a pre release of Ido's, Nakatira's 1st, Greg's of course, David K's 1st, a couple of walter T's discs & Faderbug's EP. BUT only because they are terrific works that stand on their own legs. Only a few of these have been professionally mastered and that does make a difference to the end result BUT some of the best music I know of wasn't "mastered" as we now know it. Most was "mastered" as a way of being prepared for it's distribution format.
The forensic ME is a relatively modern thing.
There are others on the forum whose work I would pay for in a moment if only they'd compile a disc and, on that note I have a few HR MP3 Mixing Clinic Compilations I've bunged together that are KILLER!
Joe, Greg, RAMI, Ido, Eca & Lifelyrics have contributed to the work of Terry & I - in some instances repeatedly - bringing not only their skills as performers/recorders but also their ears to make my songs more than they would have been.
jghungerford probably describes him/herself as one who doesn't suffer fools gladly. That, in the real world, translates as some one with little in the way of people skills or one who gladly fools sufferers.
Such folk often cure disease, produce brilliant art and almost always live lives impoverished by their own high standards and a lack of the "good things".
Oh, & if your last paragraph is the last you have to say - is in fact your epitaph - you've left behind little to be remembered by do pick up yourdummy/pacifier before slamming the door on your way out.
The forensic ME is a relatively modern thing.
There are others on the forum whose work I would pay for in a moment if only they'd compile a disc and, on that note I have a few HR MP3 Mixing Clinic Compilations I've bunged together that are KILLER!
Joe, Greg, RAMI, Ido, Eca & Lifelyrics have contributed to the work of Terry & I - in some instances repeatedly - bringing not only their skills as performers/recorders but also their ears to make my songs more than they would have been.
jghungerford probably describes him/herself as one who doesn't suffer fools gladly. That, in the real world, translates as some one with little in the way of people skills or one who gladly fools sufferers.
Such folk often cure disease, produce brilliant art and almost always live lives impoverished by their own high standards and a lack of the "good things".
Oh, & if your last paragraph is the last you have to say - is in fact your epitaph - you've left behind little to be remembered by do pick up yourdummy/pacifier before slamming the door on your way out.