Alan, why is the measurement of SPL, different in the C1 and T3?

[Imagine]

My vocalist and I, ran some tests tonight regarding the C1 and T3. With both mics symmetrically positioned, we were able to simultaneously record a vocal into 2 Avalon's. The vocalist sang 8 inches away from the mics. We noticed that the level of the T3, seemed lower than the C1. Is that due to the SPL and why is the C1 +7db over the T3?

Also, there was more "air" presents in the C1. Was I determent to think the T3 was a better mic, yeah. Was it... well I not sure. I'm still running other tests which will probably take a few days to accomplish.

After playing back my tracks, I also noticed that the C1 and T3 are "very" similar in sound quality. I thought the tube would have definitely given me an alternate sound...

Is a 6072 "Dual Triode" tube, much different than that of the 12AU7 vacuum tube? The sound of a 414 into a dbx 576 preamp, is similar to a T3 into an Avalon, as though the mids had been pushed. Well like I'm saying, I'm still running tests and might have another singer over to cover all grounds.

Imagine

 

[alanhyatt]

Imagine,

The T3 is a transformer output, where the C1 is a FET. The T3 will be a few db lower as it takes more to drive it.

You are using an Avalon 737 that incorporates tubes in its preamp section, so adding the T3's tube to it is not the best thing to do. The C1 would sound better on the 737 as a stand alone. The Avalon will add its 'air' to the C1 as a result of its tube, and that is what you are hearing.

It is not that the C1 is better or worse than the T3, I think it is a matter of what mic pre you use with them. The Neve, V72, Focusrite Red, and other solid state pres will serve you better with the T3. I have never used a tube mic pre, to run a tube mic...you just don't get everything out of either one of them, and they seem to cancel each other out.

The 6072 has more character than the 12AX7. Again, you're tests with the 414 go back to the same issue which is, the C1 and 414 are FET mics.

You can try another singer, but I do not believe that will solve your issue. You really should use a different mic pre, no tube on the T3. As I told you earlier, the Avalon is a great unit, but not my go to box, because I use the T3 all the time. When I use the C1's and C3's, I would have no issues using the Avalon, and I do, but I also use others.

The T3 really is a better mic, you are just using the same fuel on both, and that will not do it for you. Switch mic-pres on the T3, and hear what happens.

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group

 

[Imagine]

Alan,

After my tests with the Avalon, I decided to use my Focusrite ISA110, and already, the sound was better. I also realized that the "Phantom Power" was turned to the On position on both the 737 and 110. I imagine this might alter the sound, maybe not, I don't know...

I also prefer the C1 with the Avalon, as I will the T3 with a solid state pre. The T3 is extremely clean, no doubt about that. I need to run extra tests between mics and pres, as I'm sure the T3 will come out a winner.

I'll let you know of my findings...

Imagine

 

[JM350]

Alan, I don't understand this statement:

"I have never used a tube mic pre, to run a tube mic...you just don't get everything out of either one of them, and they seem to cancel each other out."

Before transistor mics even were introduced many great recordings were made with Tube mics run into tube preamps. Classic recordings from the 50's and 60's don't sound "cancelled out" in any way to my ears. So are you saying that your tube mic doesn't sound good into a tube micpreamp?

 

[alanhyatt]

JM350

I'm not saying you can't do it, I am just saying for me I find that using two tube devices adds too much 2nd order, and diminishes the high end somewhat.

You're right of course in the 60's that what it was...all tube. I think Imagine probably found the same thing, as once he used another pre, it was much better.

Imagine,

As for the phantom power. It won't change the sound, but you do need it to be off as it could do some damage. Keep on with you're tests, the T3 will show its colors soon enough.

Alan Hyatt

 

[Imagine]

Alan,

Thanks for the info...The T3 is already showing its color, for the better.
I'll let you know how everything turns out.

Imagine

 

[JM350]

Just to clarify things a bit, your statement that "in the 60's that what it was...all tube" is incorrect. Tube mics and preamps were exclusive to the 1950's but by the 1960's FET mics and other transistor equipment was starting to find it's way into studios, however the new technology was not quickly and happily embraced by all.

While you may feel personally that a tube mic run into a tube preamp is not the best combination sonically, it is certainly true that this formula produced sounds that are still benchmarks for audio quality today. Jazz recordings by Rudy Van Gelder and others, Classical recordings from RCA and Mercury records to many of the tracks on the Beatles albums were all made with tube mics run into tube micpreamps.

 

[alanhyatt]

JM350

Thank you for your clarification

Alan Hyatt