Aea R84

[Edisonsarm]

SO I'm thinking about buying the AEA R84 - for use on horns and amps (maybe).

I'm totally dumb w/ ribbon mics -

2 questions....
1) what things do I need to look for in my mic pre selection to able to give the AEA R84 what it needs (besides being careful to not have the 48+ on)?
2) how delicate are these things? I'm intimidated... don't want to spend all that money and end up killing it within the year.

 

[Sonixx]

I have a pair of R84's... great mics and excellent for horns.

no phantom power required, in fact make sure it's never engaged.

a quiet pre-amp with a lot of gain is best. the mics output is fairly low.

 

[pohaku]

What Sonixx said. And store it in the recommended position to avoid ribbon sag. Otherwise they are hardier than popularly believed. I have yet to have a ribbon mic blow out.

 

[xstatic]

I would at lesat be cautious when using it on louder guitar stacks. Air movement is what will damage it the quickest, and louder stacks can mover more air than you might realize

 

[Edisonsarm]

ok follow up stupid question - I'm shopping for pre-amps now too.... but how do I check to make sure the gain would be.... "a lot of gain" - good enough for this??? Looking @ Vintech 1272's, and Hamptones right now.... would those do the job?

ALSO - Can you elaborate on "air movement" is what damages it? IS it LOTS of air? Or quick snaps of air? What are the situations (like what xstatic brought up about louder amps) where I'd have to be careful? My TWIN REVERB is really loud - would this mean I shouldn't use the TWIN w/ the AEA R84?

 

[Shadow_7]

Well you could get the AEA TRP. The ribbon pre.

For the cascade fathead ribbons, they recommend +55dB of low noise gain. They also recommend a UA 2-610S which is like 5x's more than the mic in costs. But I guess worth it in the long run.

 

[Edisonsarm]

if it came down to having to buy a pre ($1k+) JUST for the AEA R84 - I'm sorry to say that I'm just going to puss out and buy a woodpecker. I just can't afford to buy this thing AND a dedicated pre for it. I've got about $1200 - $1600 ready to spend on a dual channel pre for all my mics... so basically if something (like the vintech or hamptone) is ok for AEA I'm going that route... if not - it's an active Ribbon all the way for me.

 

[dgatwood]

if it came down to having to buy a pre ($1k+) JUST for the AEA R84 - I'm sorry to say that I'm just going to puss out and buy a woodpecker. I just can't afford to buy this thing AND a dedicated pre for it. I've got about $1200 - $1600 ready to spend on a dual channel pre for all my mics... so basically if something (like the vintech or hamptone) is ok for AEA I'm going that route... if not - it's an active Ribbon all the way for me.

My $100 Peavey mixer is usable with ribbons. You don't want a turd of a pre, but most modern pres are good enough to provide the needed SNR as long as they have enough total gain. That's not saying that $20/channel pres will sound as good as those high end pres, but they'll be usable. Anything above that would be a step up.

 

[pohaku]

You don't need a dedicated pre. What you do need is at least 55db of quiet gain. Since many pres will have some noise at full output, that means you would likely want a pre that gives you between 66db to 72db of gain. What do you already have? Inexpensive pres like the VTB-1 and the DMP-3 typically should work just fine. A Brick would be pushing it. Of course, if you are using it on loud sources, like your Twin, you can get by with less gain.

Sudden air movement can damage a ribbon. That's why you shouldn't blow into a ribbon mic to test whether it's on. Loud cabs that move a lot of air can damage some ribbons if they are close enough to be affected. The AEA R84 isn't intended for close micing though, so that minimizes the risk. Some ribbons like the Royer are designed to be particularly hardy - which is why they get used close up on cabs. In a recording environment, you probably won't be playing at extreme volumes (at least I don't -- got a Hot Plate and smaller amps), but I could be wrong I use my R-84 back about 18-24 inches with a SM-57 or Beyer M201 on the grill. Mix to taste.

 

[xstatic]

Even with the R84 on a loud amp, as long as you have it back 18 to 24 inches, and often even just a foot you should be OK. Like Pohaku mentioned, the Royer R121 and 122 are designed for louder spl's, but even then, after almost 3 years I finally blew my ribbon out and had to have it replaced. All I had to pay was shipping though

As for the preamps, the Vintech you are looking at will have plenty of gain for the R84. Most any preamp will, except some of the real cheapies.

 

[pohaku]

Even with the R84 on a loud amp, as long as you have it back 18 to 24 inches, and often even just a foot you should be OK. Like Pohaku mentioned, the Royer R121 and 122 are designed for louder spl's, but even then, after almost 3 years I finally blew my ribbon out and had to have it replaced. All I had to pay was shipping though

As for the preamps, the Vintech you are looking at will have plenty of gain for the R84. Most any preamp will, except some of the real cheapies.

That's true, Royer's are not indestructable. Better than most though.

 

[Sonixx]

as far as gain...

horns a normal mic pre

voice or acoustic gtr, then a very quiet pre with 60-70 db.

it's not that you'll run the pre all the way, but having it quiet and with headroom.

 

[Edisonsarm]

I know there's like an $800 dollar price difference between this and the AEA - but Cascade Fat Heads I heard are pretty great! Any opinions?

 

[fraserhutch]

I know there's like an $800 dollar price difference between this and the AEA - but Cascade Fat Heads I heard are pretty great! Any opinions?

I have them both and the Fathead is no R84.

 

[ozraves]

I don't have a lot of favorite mics but the AEA mics are probably in the running. My advice about the R84 is to get it back off of sources a little more than you'd think appropriate. If you turn it around then you get a little more top end. The R92 on the other hand seems to magically be brilliant just about any way you place it.

Anyhow, I've written reviews of each mic. I've never been happy with my R84 review.

http://www.mojopie.com/r92.html
http://www.mojopie.com/r84.html

 

[soundchaser59]

I know there's like an $800 dollar price difference between this and the AEA - but Cascade Fat Heads I heard are pretty great! Any opinions?

Make sure you test drive a solid state pre and a tube pre, so you can hear the noise floor difference. Depending on the source, a tube pre with its inherent noise can be ok for some things where noise floor may not matter, like electric guitar. Use a windscreen/pop filter to protect against air turbulence. The ribbon will hold up just fine. If you need quiet, go with a solid state pre, but dont buy a ribbon of that quality and then stick a cheap Behringer or ART pre on it. A great pre can make an average mic sound better, but a great mic cannot make a cheap preamp sound better. You should consider a GT Brick for one of your preamp test drives.

The Fathead is ok for our home budgets, but it is nothing to brag about. I like my Apex 210 ribbon better than my Fathead, but the Fathead is better than any $100 dynamic for recording guitar cab. I use a Fathead and an RE20 on my cab and I've never been happier with the results. Compared to the other Chinese ribbons in the price range, the Apex 210 is well well worth the money.

Dangerous thing about ribbon mics is it's tough to settle for just one. After you get used to the sound you'll wish you had a pair..... I'd take a good ribbon over most of the affordable condensors any day.....

And read Oz's reviews.....every review from Oz I've read has been spot on the money!

 

[Edisonsarm]

ON A SIDE NOTE - i went over to my friend's studio today to test and compare a bunch of LDC's and a couple ribbons - and I'll have to say OZ's review of the NADY RSM-2 is SPOT ON. We comapred it w/ the R121, and exactly as he describes - was better in a lot of instances, and @ worst just taste differences where it wasn't as good. Props OZ!

~ I will make a post about the LDC's we compared (on vocals) soon.

 

[snow lizard]

ALSO - Can you elaborate on "air movement" is what damages it? IS it LOTS of air? Or quick snaps of air? What are the situations (like what xstatic brought up about louder amps) where I'd have to be careful? My TWIN REVERB is really loud - would this mean I shouldn't use the TWIN w/ the AEA R84?

As far as the air thing, if your guitar cab or whatever is pushing enough air to blow out a match, don't put your ribbon mic there. The inside of a kick drum is not a good place for a ribbon. Also, if you place the mic on a slight angle it can help to avoid damage from direct air blasts.

Loud is no problem. Most ribbons can handle deafening SPL.

Also, a lot of ribbons should come with some kind of bag whether they have a case or not. The bag is to prevent damaging the mic when walking around with it.


sl