Advise needed on Marshall Amps

[amt7565]

I want to trade in my Line6-HD147 for a Marshall amp. I have never owned a tube amp before(having played for more than 22 years) and I look forward to the change. I need some advise on what amp will be best based on my specific needs stated below. All advise is appreciated.

- I don't play in a band. So no need for those heavy stuff.
- I play alot in my apartment. This means I will need the same quality of tone
at low volume. I am looking for a head. I do have a Mesa 2x12 cab.
- I like lots and lots of natural sustain.
- I do recording at home.
- I am looking to go all pedals- Boss distortion, chorus, flanger, supershifter etc.


I am looking more along the lines of the JCM800. I know that I can't have everything, but based on the above parameters what would you get?

Many Thanks.

 

[Outlaws]

You can get anything from Marshall without an attenuator such as the THD HotPlate.

Sorry. I knwo that is not what you probably want to hear, but even the lowest wattage tube Marshall is 15 watts, and it the tube world, that is way to much for an apartment.


I personally don't mind HotPlates, as long as there is still some volume to output, but others hate them. Either way, tube saturation and apartments do not mix.

 

[amt7565]

What does the TDH hotplate do? Bring down the overall volume by attenuating? Does this effect the quality of the sound?

Another optioin would be to simply use the marshall pre-amp and use pedals for other sounds?

 

[Outlaws]

What does the TDH hotplate do? Bring down the overall volume by attenuating? Does this effect the quality of the sound?

Another optioin would be to simply use the marshall pre-amp and use pedals for other sounds?

?

No. if you just want preamp distortion, I HIGHLY recomend a Budda Phatman or Zenman, a Mesa Pedal, or some other tube pedal....never used the Tube Zipper from Electro-Harmonix, but that would be another one to check out.

The 'Marshall' sound is the powertubes (the big suckers) saturating. The problem is they don't saturate until the volume is maxed out. Not the phisical control on the amp being at 10, but the actual volume it can reach (the control might only be at 4-6...then the tubes start to 'clip' more and more as the control is raised higher and you get a ever so slight boost in overall volume, but mainly more poweramp distortion.

Now, an attenuator will take the speaker load and lower it volume there, and still provide the proper resistance to the amp, so it doesn't melt down. It is a Master Volume in ever sense of the word. But a Master Volume on an amp isn't the same thing. The amps Master will control how hard the powertubes are working. So it it is low, there isn't any powertube distortion/saturation to fillout the 'tube' sound you normally think of. So as I said before, a pedal would be more effective if you don't plan on getting an attenuator so you can crank the master volume.

An attunuator will affect the sound somewhat, most notably at middle of the night volumes since the speakers are not fluxuating like they were designed to do, but IMO it is less bad than just sticking with a solidstate or trying to play a 15-100watt amp at a low volume. YMMV

Did that make sense?

 

[amt7565]

So what you are telling me is, since an apartment and a tube amp are incompatible, the best solution would be to get a Tube Pedal like the Buddha Phatman and use it through another amp? And this amp would be a solidstate?

I was once talking to a Marshall sales Rep at a guitar convention and he mentioned that the new Marshall amps have circuitry that will give the same amount of saturation at lower volumes as well? Is that not true then?


Is this a good setup:
I use a marshall head, but with non of it's own distortion turned on. I want to use a Boss distortion pedal instead and only use the Pre-amp of the Head instead (maybe loop).

Thanks.

 

[Outlaws]

So what you are telling me is, since an apartment and a tube amp are incompatible, the best solution would be to get a Tube Pedal like the Buddha Phatman and use it through another amp? And this amp would be a solidstate?

That would be an okay setup for an apartment. But I am also saying to get a HotPlate if you really want a tube amp while living in an apartment.

I was once talking to a Marshall sales Rep at a guitar convention and he mentioned that the new Marshall amps have circuitry that will give the same amount of saturation at lower volumes as well? Is that not true then?

Yes, they have a half power switch to make it go from 100 -blistering, earth rumbling, eardrum piercing watts- ......down to 50 -still loudenough for an areana gig- watts.

And the 60/40 watt switch....same thing.....way to loud. 15 tube watts is too loud for an apartment. Infact, 5 tube watts would arguably get you evicted.

Is this a good setup:
I use a marshall head, but with non of it's own distortion turned on. I want to use a Boss distortion pedal instead and only use the Pre-amp of the Head instead (maybe loop).

I wouldn't get a Marshall if you are gonna use a pedal. I would get a Fender Deluxe Reverb for its beautiful clean tone and then use a pedal on that.

If you use the preamp on the head, you will get tube distortion, but it will be very much like that of the tube pedals I mention previously. But with those pedals you will not be paying for the poweramp section of the Marshall that you will never be able to use untill you get a house with very open minded neighbors.

There is no use for a distortion pedal if using the preamp distortion of an amp. It willbecome noisy and hum uncontriolably....unless that is what you are looking for...

 

[amt7565]

Thanks.

This is what I gather from your advise:

I can get a Marshall head and use it in conjunction with the THD, but no external pedals recommended. This means I only use the Marshall sounds.

OR

If I want to use external pedals, then one option is to use something like the Fender combo amp. Do you have a recommendation for something that is not a combo?

I would like this setup:
Boss Pedals---> amp(not combo)----->my Mesa 2x12 cab.

 

[Outlaws]

Thanks.

This is what I gather from your advise:

I can get a Marshall head and use it in conjunction with the THD, but no external pedals recommended. This means I only use the Marshall sounds.

OR

If I want to use external pedals, then one option is to use something like the Fender combo amp. Do you have a recommendation for something that is not a combo?

I would like this setup:
Boss Pedals---> amp(not combo)----->my Mesa 2x12 cab.

Yep. Get a combo and unplug the speaker and use the Mesa. (Just make sure the ohms match)

I can't speak for heads designed for Cleans. Most are more money than I can afford.

But, now that I am thinking of it.......check out if you can find a THD UniValve or BiValve. Its a head with a built in HotPlate. You can get anything from shimmering cleans to old school Marshall Plexi type-like sounds and still be at reasonable volumes. I have the BiValve and love it. Its a non-master volume amp so its only a volume control with a few EQ knobs and such. It works well for pedals too. Plus you can use almost any tube without ever needing to bias the amp (that cost money if you have a tech do it). Its definately worth the drive if you can find one within a few hours driving distance to give it a testing. Just bring that Mesa with you so you can hear it properly since speakers will change the sound drastically.

 

[amt7565]

Thanks!
I was at the Guitarcenter just now but they do not have the THD products. So I tried the Mesa Single Rectifier 50W. But the thing was connected to a B-52 speaker and I did not like the amount of sustain on it. I used a couple of pedals through the clean channel.

Do you have any comments on this amp?

Thanks.

 

[Outlaws]

Thanks!
I was at the Guitarcenter just now but they do not have the THD products. So I tried the Mesa Single Rectifier 50W. But the thing was connected to a B-52 speaker and I did not like the amount of sustain on it. I used a couple of pedals through the clean channel.

Do you have any comments on this amp?

Thanks.

I have an opinion for everything....


My guess is that you didn't crank it all the way up...otherwise you would have realized its a loud amp. And by loud I mean, 'disturbing the peace' loud.

Most tube amps don't eally start to 'work' until they hit 3-4 on the volume knob. Even if its still clean, it still need to have some juice for it to sound like it should sound.

 

[juststartingout]

Personally, I got rid of most of my boxes when I got my TSL100. Simply put, I think Marshall tube amps are fantastic. But that is just my opinion and many others here would disagree.

The one box I kept was my BBE Maximiser. I have seen that make most amps, solid state or tubes, sound great. It adds countour to the loop without any distoration.

The other box in my chain is a Black Finger Tube Compressor. Run through the clean channel, it will give you more of a fender overdirve. Run through the preamped channel will allow for more drive than you can use.

The VPR feature on the TSL100 will really cut the gain. If you are now playing in an apt, it will turn down enough to be compariable. It also has a direct feed to a mic chord for recording, so you don't have to mic the cab. Although I use both mics and the DI into a mixer, the DI is sufficent. Those are both on the DSL60 also.

You can emulate a Marshall, but there is nothing better than the real thing, and in my opinion, that is very true!!

 

[amt7565]

Isn't the TSL100 like really expensive? I have a budget for $1000.00 only though. Basically I am getting rid of my HD147 and getting a new amp.

Does anyone here know if the THD-Univalve has any direct recording possibility?
I am seriously considering it.
Thanks.

 

[Outlaws]

Isn't the TSL100 like really expensive? I have a budget for $1000.00 only though. Basically I am getting rid of my HD147 and getting a new amp.

Does anyone here know if the THD-Univalve has any direct recording possibility?
I am seriously considering it.
Thanks.

Yes it does, its called "LINE OUT". ANd it has a built in 'dumby load' so that you don't have to have a speaker cab hooked up. Not all amps have that and for tube amps, no matter what you get, you need to see if you need to buy a dumby load if you ever record direct without a speaker attached or you WILL destroy an amp that way. FYI

 

[TexRoadkill]

The Mesa Boogie Rectifier Recording Preamp has one of the best direct sounds I've ever heard. Not sure of their price though.

 

[amt7565]

Outlaws-
Thanks man. So the fact that it has recording possibility makes me very eager to consider it. is it possible to have it connected to the speaker and also record direct at the same time? I guess not?

Texasroadkill-
The Mesa pereamp you mentioned, can I directly connect it to the speakers as well? I want one amp- both for recording and jamming through speakers.
Thanks

 

[Outlaws]

Outlaws-
Thanks man. So the fact that it has recording possibility makes me very eager to consider it. is it possible to have it connected to the speaker and also record direct at the same time? I guess not?

I believe you can, but don't quote me on that.

http://www.univalve.net/forums_new will have a lot for answers.

 

[amt7565]

Thanks everyone for your invaluable advise. I plan to test run the THD Univalve this week (they don't sell them at GC). I have also located a dealer who will sell it for a price I really really like. So, seems like I am on the track to getting one soon.


AMT-

 

[larry_emder]

My suggestion would be to get a low wattage marshall (bout 20 watts), i've seen them around

 

[Sonixx]

Unless it's just got to be a Marshall...

Consider a Carvin Legacy head or combo... plus Hot Plate

100W switchable to 50W

Creamy and very warm distortion... very very nice

A sustain monster

Less than $1K for both (Ebay)

You'll have a great sounding rig... also, you can play out if ever needed...

 

[amt7565]

Hmmm...Legacy amps...the ones Vai uses...mouth watering.....but I have now made up my mind to get a THD-univalve though...it's only 15W and will serve my purpose well....I also hear it's got good sustain...


Any comments on the Univalve?