Advice please - moving up from a {shudder} CASIO Keyboard!

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Jedman

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Well, the time has come to get a "real" keyboard... I've been using a Casio WK-1630, which has 76 touch sensitive keys, 32 note polyphony, and 232 tones; I'd like to upgrade from this.
My biggest complaint about the CASIO is the keys do NOT feel weighted or real, even though it claims to be "touch sensitive".
I've seen some good looking (used, lower priced) Roland, Korg and Ensoniq keyboards, but I'm at a loss as which are better for my needs?

What I'm looking for is a keyboard that "plays more like a piano". I would like weighted, full size keys with good feel. I do not have room for a piano, that is why I need a keyboard. The PIANO voice MUST be high quality. I really don't care too much about other voices, etc, because I'm using it with Sonar on my computer and can do all the other sounds there, I think.

Thank you all for any help you can give me!
Jed
 
try stage pianos like the Yamaha S series or the Kurtzweil SP's. They usually have limited but good sounds, weighted action and a good overall feel. No need to complicate things if you only want good piano, organ, and string sounds.

Stone
 
Ok - I'll take a look at those, stonepiano!
Also was wondering about these: The Roland A-50: "which features Polyphonic Aftertouch (i.e. the capability to sense the pressure applied to individual keys.)" Does that sound like the piano action that I want?

Also, this a bit more expensive, but... The Technics SXPX-201: It is an 88Key, Steinway Sampled, and supposed to have the keys of a Steinway D7 Grand Piano!

Thanks for any more tips,
Jed
 
well, I'm not familiar with the A-50, but if it's anything like the A-33, I wouldn't expect anything much better than that 1630 Casio. I actually have played the Casio board quite a bit and, if I recall, it has a three step touch sensitivity system. I'd expect the same on the a-50.

If you're talking about the XP-50, then you're talking a good board bordering on a workstation. I still, however, don't think your action is anywhere near what a stage piano would be.

Haven't seen the Technics board. Steinway sampled certainly sounds appetizing, tho!

best thing to do is stop by the local GC or whatever and give em all a shot for feel.

Good luck dude.
 
Well, I guess maybe I didn't realize how expensive the "good action" keyboards are! Maybe I'll have to settle for something else -
Are there any decent key - action keyboards with a good quality piano sound that are the "workstation" type that I could get used on Ebay for around $600 or so...
I did see a Suzuki digital Piano for around that price, but don't know if they're any good. Maybe I'd like a workstation type board anyway? :)

Jed
 
I have a Kurz SP-88. It does not feel at all like a piano (spring-action keys), but the resistance is enough to allow me to play expressively. I am NOT happy with the piano sound, though. :(

The Roland FP-9 has nice, tight action, and a short throw - almost like a Clavinet. Very very nice feel, though again, not too piano-like. Sounds pretty good too.

My favorite touch is on an Alesis QS-8. So I bought one. But there are durability and service network issues, and the piano sound is just okay (better than my Kurz, though). There are special piano Q-cards, one for classical piano, one for jazz piano, that might raise the stakes some. I haven't heard these yet.

The new Kawai is reputed to be very good. A high-end Yamaha Clavinova, or S-90, might be good too.
 
I would have said the Roland FP-9 too but Jed also said space was a premium. The Yamaha FP-500 is nice too but I wouldn't suggest it unless you had some extra room for another piece of furniture.

Maybe not the Kurz like daf said, but I definitely like the feel of the Yamaha S08's and such... YMMV

I like the sounds on the Alesis Qs6.1 and the 8, but is the piano feel there?
 
I'm using a Korg N1 which has nicely weighted 88 keys. It feels just like a piano. the piano sound is also pretty decent, I have a sample of it.



you can probably nab one for $700 - $800... I got mine for 8 bills about 3 years ago.

The piano is good but the other sounds show their age. They are usable, but will not stop your heart like the Triton and Motif. As a semi portable piano, its a good deal though. Will blow the f**kin doors off any casio, thats for dam sure.
 
Jedman said:
Ok - I'll take a look at those, stonepiano!
Also was wondering about these: The Roland A-50: "which features Polyphonic Aftertouch (i.e. the capability to sense the pressure applied to individual keys.)" Does that sound like the piano action that I want?

Also, this a bit more expensive, but... The Technics SXPX-201: It is an 88Key, Steinway Sampled, and supposed to have the keys of a Steinway D7 Grand Piano!

Thanks for any more tips,
Jed
Click to expand...

The A-50 is a MIDI controller and has no sounds of its own. It only controls external MIDI modules.

I would just hunt down a Yamaha S80 as it is discontinued because of the S90 and can be bought for around $1000-1200

You will not find a used workstation with weighted keys and good piano sounds for $600.

Older boards that might fall into that category but will dissapoint in terms of sound because of their age are the Korg T1, Korg O1/W Pro and Yamaha SY99.
 
Ok, thanks for all the help so far...

I could get an ALESIS QS-8 for $650 right now if no one else grabs it first -- it seems like a good choice.

I couldn't find a Korg N1, but I found a KORG N5 -- is that the replacement? Is there a ROLAND board that is comparable, or are they way out of my price range? :)

The other thing is, I could just play the MIDI sound back with Steinway or Bosendorfer sound fonts through my Audigy2, when recording midi, right?
 
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After reading reviews and specs until 1:00 AM, I think I've decided on the Alesis QS-8.
Does anyone know if it's worth the extra money to get the 8.1 or 8.2 version instead of the original QS-8 (1996 model)?

I just have one question to everyone who owns this board: do you save your stuff on your computer, because the QS8 doesn't have a floppy; or do you buy the extra cards to go with it?

Thanks for all the help so far on this project -- maybe I seem carried away about specs and stuff, but once the money is gone, it's gone! :)

Jed
 
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The N1 is the big brother of the N5. The N1 has 88 piano weighted keys the N5 does not. The N1 was released in 1998 and fell out of style since the release of the awesome sounding trinitys and tritons. One thing ill say is the korg is built like a f**king tank inside and out. If N. korea starts launchng nukes, I'm hiding under my N1!

http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?A_PROD_NO=N1

The Alisis your looking at probably does not sound as good as the Korg I am guessing since it is older (I'm not an alesis fan at all, btw). I would play with both before you buy either. I wouldnt pay more than $600 for either... maybe 700 for a MINT N1.


There is an N1 on ebay ($0.01 right now...):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2511837531&category=29552

The truth is that the sounds on either the Korg or the Alisis are going to be dated. I prefer my $399 roland Jv1010 module's sounds to the Korgs 5 to 1 or better... its just newer / better technology.

--------

Now lets talk new...

Here are some digital piano options I would look at:
(your only going to get pianos, strings and organs on these boards)

Roland EP-760 Digital Piano ($599):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130788224/search/g=key/detail/base_id/84761

Kurzwile SP-76 Stage Piano ($639):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130788224/search/g=key/detail/base_id/43907

Kurzwile SP-88 Stage Piano ($729):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130788224/search/g=key/detail/base_id/41972

Yamaha P80 Portable Digital Piano ($899):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130788224/search/g=key/detail/base_id/41162

-------

And here are some synths:
(These can do all sounds)

Roland RS-9 88-Key 64-Voice Synth ($950?):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130788224/search/g=key/detail/base_id/51367

Yamaha S08 Performance Synth ($999):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130788224/search/g=key/detail/base_id/60666

------------

And what I would save up for and get if your truly serious....
(Fuck sonar, this is what you wana use!!!)

** Yamaha S90 88-Key Synthesizer ($1600)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...96130788224/search/g=key/detail/base_id/79112


Or you can buy an N1 and get one of these down the road (like I am going to), which is actually a little better than the S90 as far as sound:

** Motif-Rack 1U Tone Generator ($999)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...6130788224/search/g=key/detail/base_id/100748




Anyway, FUCK THE DAM SPECS. Go out and listen to these things. REALLY listen. Specs dont mean shit.
Get your ass to pawn shops and to Guitar center.

Have a nice day :p,
- Gunther
 
And yeah, from 1996 to today has been a HUGE jump in snyth technology and sound quality. The past 10 years has been great for us snyth guys. All the inovation in computer tech really helps us. So the newer versions of the boards your looking at should blow away the older.

(but Alesis sux.)
 
Wow - I appreciate your time, Gunther. I've been looking around here for some good places to check out synths and stuff, but haven't found any place that carries a good variety. There is a local shop that sells Yamaha synths, but mostly they sell acoustic instruments. Another shop only had 2 Roland keyboards! The rest was guitars, mixers, and drums. That's why I'm asking so many questions - I guess I might have to drive to Chicago or something to play these things?

Do you know anything about the KAWAI K5000s? There's one on Ebay for less than $700 (my target price right now) ... claims it's one heck of a synth.
The problem is, I'd like better key action that the Alesis has, I think; can't I just do sounds through my computer? I've got some serious crunching power for FX and stuff...

I really do appreciate all your help, and I'm trying to look up more music stores in the area.
Jed
 
My best advice would be to do what brzilian said and get a Yamaha SP80. Suck it up and spend 300 more than you wanted to... it will be worth it.

Just my opinion though.
 
Jedman said:
Wow - I appreciate your time, Gunther. I've been looking around here for some good places to check out synths and stuff, but haven't found any place that carries a good variety. There is a local shop that sells Yamaha synths, but mostly they sell acoustic instruments. Another shop only had 2 Roland keyboards! The rest was guitars, mixers, and drums. That's why I'm asking so many questions - I guess I might have to drive to Chicago or something to play these things?

Do you know anything about the KAWAI K5000s? There's one on Ebay for less than $700 (my target price right now) ... claims it's one heck of a synth.
The problem is, I'd like better key action that the Alesis has, I think; can't I just do sounds through my computer? I've got some serious crunching power for FX and stuff...

I really do appreciate all your help, and I'm trying to look up more music stores in the area.
Jed
Click to expand...

If by serious power you mean your Audigy, you're in for some surprises...

I've been doing this for a while and if it comes down to spending extra $$$ on hardware rather than depending on the computer/software, I'll gladly fork over a couple of bills.
 
Hehehehehehe... no, I did not mean the Audigy2 as the "crunching power". I was refering to the computer...probably not what you have, but for my budget and "noobie needs," it's pretty beefed -
MSI Master K7-L mobo w/ Dual 1700+ Athlons,
512MB PC2700 ram,
WD 7200rpm 80GB system drive,
ATA133 RAID striped w/dual WD 7200rpm 60GB recording drives,
ATI Radeon 8500 128MB (retail),
"your favorite" Audigy2 Platinum...
...and a couple of video capture boards for my part time video editing job at the college, a DVD and CD burner.
I should hope I could run a few simple effects (all I really need) on that. :)

Well, thanks for all your help on the synths, and I'll just sit tight and count my pennies (these days the're few) and wait for something good to pop up on Ebay.

EDIT: I found a really cool site at http://www.purgatorycreek.com/pianocompare.html
that let me hear a lot of different high class synths...
Jed
 
Originally posted by Jedman
My biggest complaint about the CASIO is the keys do NOT feel weighted or real, even though it claims to be "touch sensitive".
Click to expand...

Well, touch sensitivity and weighted keys are *not* the same thing at all.

Touch sensitivity is about it being sensitive to how hard you press the key - weight is about the key's action and response.

As far as pianos go - I have a Yamaha P-80 and I can't recommend it enough (I am primarily a pianist myself). It is basically a (relatively) no-frills digital piano - and it delivers the two essential things you need - (graded) weighted keys, and authentic piano sound. The piano sounds are excellent. It has a few other sounds - a couple of electric pianos, harpsichord, some organs (including a pretty decent hammond-like sound, w/ leslie effect), and two good strings sounds, as well as acoustic bass!

I think it goes for around $900 new in the US (I'm not sure though) - so a used one might well be in your price range.
 
$900 is right, as per musician's friend.
See the link I posted above.
 
Thanks for the suggestion on the Yamaha P80. I went to some local pawn shops today, and only found one good keyboard, and it was the P80. It sounded and felt authentic; the keys felt like they took a lot to press, though. Kind of "spongy" maybe?
Anyway, there are some scratches on the board, and stuff on the keys, so they only wanted $679 for it...I'm pretty tempted, even if it's not a perfect feel, it blows this CASIO out of the water! :)

What do you guys think about those Studiologic controller w/ the FATAR keyboard? I realize I'd have to run it through my MIDI gear/computer, but is that a real problem? Would you recommend staying away from just a "controller" or is that a viable route to go?

Jed
 
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