Advice on converting my out-building to recording space

[Quinny]

Hi All

Our outhouse is in a terrible state! I'm gutting it over the next couple of months, having some building work done and putting it back together as a recording space. Any advice on the building work itself and/or the sound-proofing aspects would be much appreciated. I'm hoping to get some advice here and document the conversion as it progresses.

Initially I'm thinking of treating the room itself pretty lightly and installing a booth for the noise making. Thinking this on the basis that I can take the booth with me if/when we move, and not have a lot of money into a room I can't take with me.

Pic of the building below, lots more pics HERE. Really, really shabby inside....work is a complete gut and re-build (including one wall down and replaced).

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

A booth will not help you if your monitoring levels exceed what the neighbors will tolerate. This is where fact begins and fiction ends. Buy an SPL meter. Do some measuring and this will tell you far more than guesswork by anyone here.

For instance, if you monitor broadband from 50hz to 12 or so khz, at 85dba, and the building transmission loss provides only 25db of TL and your neighbors hear 55db ..I'd submit you are in trouble. Or something to that effect. A booth doesn't help you when monitoring at high SPL.

 

[jhbrandt]

Quinny,

It looks like you have a masonry building there. Brick with stucco? Most construction like this can boast an STC rating of 50. Your door, windows and possibly your roof will be the weak points as far as sound isolation is concerned.

Have a look at the building construction and post all the details that you can. Also a drawing to scale with dimensions would help us to give you pointers in the right direction.

It looks like it will be a nice space.
Cheers,
John

 

[Quinny]

Chaps, many thanks for your responses. Rick, thanks for highlighting some stuff I know nothing about….at the bottom of a steep curve here and need to do a lot of research!

In terms of the booth, I was thinking that would be a solution for drums and amps, letting them be at the required volume without upsetting the neighbours. With the right booth sat on the right suspension with the right contact points with the rest of the studio, that would largely contain the sound, no? By all means though, just an initial idea and following a read around last night I’m prepared for double walls, ceilings etc. If doing the room a certain way would mean a booth isn’t entirely necessary, I’m open to that…..but conscious of separation and, as I say, would be nice (but not essential) to take some of the investment away if/when we move.

John – the little bits I’m sure of so far are that the window is getting removed (replaced with ‘more wall’), the door will be replaced with a heavy, high security door/double door. The end wall (the one in quite a state!) is coming down and back up again. For the room itself I was thinking of studding another wall and ceiling internally, and filling the gaps between the two appropriately (rockwool? what's the done thing these days?).

Electrically the space is being re-wired with a separate sub-main, having a dedicated board fed from the main board in the house.

I’m back home at the weekend, builder will be there too (he’s doing the house at the mo) – I’ll take some measurements and have him confirm exactly what the place is made of.

Thanks again.

 

[Weasel9992]

Our outhouse is in a terrible state!

In yet another example of, "how can we speak the same language and yet mean such different things", an "outhouse" in American English refers to a toilet in a little wooden shack set above a hole in the ground. You can imagine what I was expecting to see...

Frank

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

DANGIT!!!! I hate Photobucket. It just crashed my computer...for the SECOND time!! After writing a long winded reply, even though I knew better, I decided to check out the photos first...just so I knew what you were working with. No sooner than I clicked on a photo...WHAM!! It caused Iexplorer to crash this time. I don't understand what Photobucket does...but last time I picked up a virus that was so bad I had to completely REFORMAT my harddrive

I still don't know if I picked up another virus this time...but you can bet your sweet bippy I'll never go there again. Completely pisses me off! ARRRRGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRR!!!!

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Ok, everything appears to be working right. At least for the moment.

In terms of the booth, I was thinking that would be a solution for drums and amps, letting them be at the required volume without upsetting the neighbours.

I understand, and a booth allows monitoring over real monitors vs recording in the CR using headphones to monitor. HOWEVER..here is the deal.

IF, you really want this space to have a reasonable Transmission Loss, and this means defining the connection to the house and your expectations for transmission into the rest of the building, and transmission to your neighbors and measuring the INSIDE SPL using some kind of Test CD with all sorts of Frequencies vs measuring the SPL 1 meter from your target using the same CD or whatever...even live drums. This is the ONLY real way to find out the TL performance of the existing structure, which then tells you how much you have to improve it in order to meet a TL target. In reality, rock drums can produce 110dba SPL which, unless you have really deep pockets, is almost IMPOSSIBLE to "soundproof" from an adjacent room at 40hz or there about. The point is..high SPL, LOW FREQUENCIES are a BITCH to isolate..like bass drums, bass guitars etc. These are the things that all TL construction must address. And it ain't easy.

You really need to tell us more ....lots more...about what you are trying to achieve, distance to neighbors, existing construction etc. The subject of so called "soundproofing" is so intrinsically irrational, and counter intuitive, specific solutions based on guesswork is basically useless. INFORMATION is the key here. Transmission Loss construction is highly DETAIL specific, and can actually make things worse if not implemented correctly. BTW, do NOT link to Photobucket anymore...at least for me. Upload directly here. Or I can't help you.

fitZ

 

[Quinny]

In yet another example of, "how can we speak the same language and yet mean such different things", an "outhouse" in American English refers to a toilet in a little wooden shack set above a hole in the ground. You can imagine what I was expecting to see...

Frank

Have you seen the pics Frank? Currently not far off what you call an outhouse indeed!!!

 

[Quinny]

Over the weekend I'll take some measurements and do some drawings up, will also walk around with the builder and note the major construction points. Will report back with the info.

In terms of what I want to do with it….primarily, just for me.. typical 'rock band' set-up: guitars, bass, drums and a few electronics….and I'll do it all myself one at a time. Whether doing this on my own means a booth is the way to go I'm not sure, haven't really thought through the practicalities of it yet.

One day I can see me wanting to experiment with a band….. I envisage this would be guitar and/or bass into plug-ins/headphones (no amps) for guide whilst doing live drum tracks (in the booth?) and then the other instruments one at a time after drums. That would be a way off, if ever, main aim is to get the set-up to be ideal for what I want to do over the next couple of years.

Fitz - can you give me some more info on this whole TL measurement? If I understand correctly you're saying this is something I could/should do now to determine how the build should pan out? Some more info on how I approach this would be great.

Thanks again all.

 

[moresound]

In yet another example of, "how can we speak the same language and yet mean such different things", an "outhouse" in American English refers to a toilet in a little wooden shack set above a hole in the ground. You can imagine what I was expecting to see...

Frank

It's not so much the smell ....it's the burning of my eyes.

 

[Supercreep]

With the right booth sat on the right suspension with the right contact points with the rest of the studio, that would largely contain the sound, no?

Maybe. But a sound proof booth is also an airtight booth, and humans like to breathe a lot. Ventilating your booth = cutting holes in booth = no longer airtight or soundproof.

 

[rayc]

Looks like an old parking garage that was modified. I like the sun garden area on top but the interior is very lavatorial.
HEAPS of work but you can make it work.
Get advice, get someone who know carpentry/construction to look at the viability of the structure and booths are for youths.
I look forward to following your progress very enviously. At least you have a space, some plans & energy. I hope you have the money!!!
I just have the space - & not as big as yours either.

 

[Quinny]

An old garage is indeed what it was. The lane up the back of the house is for emergency access only…guy built a garage for his new 911 (he had literally just won the lottery!) and the powers that be agreed the structure could stay but that it wasn't to be used as a garage, had to be boarded up. The roof was in a terrible state, many leaks down below, so we took that off and put a new one on - that has stopped those leaks but still more water getting in via the door and that crap 'wall' at the end (I'm sure you could punch through it without much effort) - "lavatorial" is about right! Time to sort it out!

Back to the booth…..if I didn't have one I'd struggle to get a good drum sound whilst playing and hearing them in headphones, no? I suppose I could record a drum, play back, tweak if necessary, record, play back etc. Amps I'm happy with as the cabs will be sat in enclosures I'm building, so there'll be sufficient separation between cab and monitors….bass will be recorded straight into Logic and to be honest I've been getting some great results with guitars and plug-ins recently too, so I can see a lot of the guitar heading that way - I love my amps but increasingly finding plug-ins a nice way to work. So main concern is drums really, and open to booth or no booth…..but am thinking that decision will have consequences for the building work right from day 1 so needs to be answered? Or am I focusing on this booth issue too early? I guess those TL tests fitZ mentions are a priority too, but need to do some reading on what/how over the weekend….

Measurements and construction details coming over the weekend.

 

[Quinny]

Hi all. Great bank holiday weekend just passed, 3 solid days of stripping walls and then back to work for a rest.

Some measurements of the space below via my super-technical diagrams (not to scale, all measurements in cm). Firstly, the view from above:

And the measurements inside:

Effectively it looks like we're dealing with the same issues a cellar has, given the 'short' end of the building is underground. 4 major thoughts initially:

• End wall (the tall one) coming down and being replaced
• Floor to be dug up completely, a membrane installed and a new floor to go on top
• Walls to be tanked and new inner walls to start 5mm or so away from them. Thinking of a draining channel under the membrane or such like to carry away any water which does manage to make it inside in future
• False ceiling install
• Door replaced, window disappears

Potentially useful info:

• Lintels are concrete
• Public path along side house/studio is concrete, as are all steps and surfaces up side of studio to next door
• Garden next door is grass/loose soil
• Land to left of the public path (the one alongside house & studio) is all gardens

Further advice and thoughts most welcome.

 

[Quinny]

Anyone?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hold your horses. I'm working on a sketchup for you right now. Give me a day or so to finish. btw, great diagram. Thats what we need to work with. I'll be back. In the meantime, What kind of monitors do you have? And can you give me their dimensions?

fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

End wall (the tall one) coming down and being replaced
Floor to be dug up completely, a membrane installed and a new floor to go on top
Walls to be tanked and new inner walls to start 5mm or so away from them. Thinking of a draining channel under the membrane or such like to carry away any water which does manage to make it inside in future
False ceiling install
Door replaced, window disappears

btw. I've got a ton of questions for you regarding all this and more, but no time to post them. I'll be back with a list of questions later.
However, the first question is...what is your budget?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Great bank holiday weekend just passed

What is a "bank holiday"? Over here, they call it a "bank holiday" when a bank is about to financially collapse and the government closes them for a few days so the customers won't create a "bank run" to get their deposits out. This gives the theiving bankers time to take THEIR money and run. And don't you believe its not REAL. It's happened many times.

 

[Quinny]

Thanks fitz.

Monitors are Genelec 1029s with a 1091 sub. They're packed away at the minute, I'll see if I can find their dimensions online.

Budget? I'd say a max of £6k or thereabouts. Don't need any equipment as such, sorted for all of that, so the £ is all for the space itself. Would be nice if we could take some of the spend away if/when we move, but not essential.

Q.

 

[grimtraveller]

What is a "bank holiday"? Over here, they call it a "bank holiday" when a bank is about to financially collapse and the government closes them for a few days so the customers won't create a "bank run" to get their deposits out. This gives the theiving bankers time to take THEIR money and run. And don't you believe its not REAL. It's happened many times.

In England a bank holiday is a day that the banks aren't open so the country gets a day off work. I think we get 8 of them, including things like good friday, easter monday, christmas and boxing day, new years day......
Totally non essential info and off topic, but there you go.