R
rockishell
New member
wheres the best place on the internet to buy foam for the walls. That will tell me how much I need ?Thanks . J
rockishell said:wheres the best place on the internet to buy foam for the walls. That will tell me how much I need ?Thanks . J
Acoustic/sound proofing foam
fitZ2 said:It has finally occured to me, that a "majority" of Americans have become so bamboozled by snake oil advertizing, fast food, tv on demand, the IRS, Federal Reserve notes, the Bush administration, the Hillary Clinton Feminist Welfare state child support bueacracy, corporate media news, and other modern myths, scams, ripoffs and con artists, that they have become mesmerized zombies with no ability to form rational thought, conclusions, or any other god given processes that differentiate us from a fucking aomeba.Sad.
Ok. Start here.Your observations intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Rod Gervais said:Are you looking for soundproofing - or sound treatment?
Foam is not a sound proofing material.
Rod
KevinDrummer said:Foam is a material that helps with soundproofing.
Of course, there are other techniques that help to "soundproof", but no one is really looking to totally sound proof a room, ultimately.
You know what he means.
I'm also looking for a good, inexpensive foam supplier.
Oh brother, here we go again.Foam is a material that helps with soundproofing.
Rod Gervais said:Awww........ you had to go and do it................ I really wish you hadn't.
Sorry sir......... but you are very misinformed.
Foam does not help with soundproofing....... in fact - you can't find a single tested sound isolation wall / floor / ceiling design that uses foam product as a part of the assembly.
Foam is a product used to assist in tuning a room after isolation is completed - but it has none of the qualities needed for sound isolation - which (by the way) are (in order of importance) mass mass and more MASS.
Sorry, you really should be more carefull how you present yourself......... when you are going to do it badly you should not be in the process of explaining to someone else how little they really know.
1st - Foam is not a soundproofing "technique" - it isn't even a soundproofing product.
2nd - Of course people are looking to totally soundproof a room - the fact that it is virtually impossible doesn't change that (ultimately).
Nope - he's just like you or anyone else here......... I only know what he says......... I do not have one damned clue what he means - which is why i went out of my way to ask him........
You see - soome people are just like you - they believe in fairy tales - magic beans and dragons....... sheesh - they even believe that foam is an isolation product (I know - whoda thunk) - so when they present me with multicolored pictures - I try to ask them questions to see what they really mean.
Now - see that - you can do it......... you actually made an intelligent statement - I'm proud of you - I knew deep down that you could do it eventually......... although "good" and "inexpensive" are probably mutually exclusive terms when it comes to these products.
Sincerely,
Rod
Rod Gervais said:Awww........ you had to go and do it................ I really wish you hadn't.
Sorry sir......... but you are very misinformed.
Foam does not help with soundproofing....... in fact - you can't find a single tested sound isolation wall / floor / ceiling design that uses foam product as a part of the assembly.
Foam is a product used to assist in tuning a room after isolation is completed - but it has none of the qualities needed for sound isolation - which (by the way) are (in order of importance) mass mass and more MASS.
Sorry, you really should be more carefull how you present yourself......... when you are going to do it badly you should not be in the process of explaining to someone else how little they really know.
1st - Foam is not a soundproofing "technique" - it isn't even a soundproofing product.
2nd - Of course people are looking to totally soundproof a room - the fact that it is virtually impossible doesn't change that (ultimately).
Nope - he's just like you or anyone else here......... I only know what he says......... I do not have one damned clue what he means - which is why i went out of my way to ask him........
You see - soome people are just like you - they believe in fairy tales - magic beans and dragons....... sheesh - they even believe that foam is an isolation product (I know - whoda thunk) - so when they present me with multicolored pictures - I try to ask them questions to see what they really mean.
Now - see that - you can do it......... you actually made an intelligent statement - I'm proud of you - I knew deep down that you could do it eventually......... although "good" and "inexpensive" are probably mutually exclusive terms when it comes to these products.
Sincerely,
Rod
KevinDrummer said:Both of you who responded to my post (especially Gervais) are:
A) jerks - because you seem to think all others besides you are mindless morons.
B) wrong - if you don't think absorbtion is (or can be) a major part of soundproofing. I know the physics.
I know that slapping some wedgie foam on a wall isn't the "correct" way to make a soundproof room, but you know what? It sure does help. Not everyone has the resources to (or even needs/wants to) build a completely isolated room (and thats impossible - the one thing you so kindly blessed me with your sage agreement).![]()
BTW, do your own research on drum isolation chambers. You seem to imply in the other thread that they don't exist. Some are hard panelled, and some are a combination of hard and tent-like tops.
Rod Gervais said:Sorry - you're mistaken again - my being a jerk is genetic - it has nothing to do with thinking all others are mindless morons.
As a matter of fact - If you took the time to look through my response to anything in here (or any other BBS I spend time at) you would find that 99.9% of my responses are respectful and appreaciate the fact that most people are intelligent......... it takes a special type of person to get me going.
Sorry, you are mistaken - to create sound isolation you need mass (you also need to stop air movement)
picture that 5/8" drywall has mass of (roughly) 2.625 psf..... which equals about 50.4 pcf. Now picture that typical home studio construction uses 2 sheets of 5/8" drywall for interior finishes on both sides of the walls.
Good quality acoustic foam products have mass of roughly 2.5 pcf.
So in theory - you could provide the same mass with foam as with drywall..... just you would have to use foam in a thickness of 4.24' in order to acheive the same mass.
But we now have a problem with air movement. Wherever air goes - there also goes noise....... that's why I'm such a prick when it comes to taping the base layer of drywall and caulking all edges of drywall in sound isolation walls on all of our projects (not just world class studios).
Air travels very freely through foam............ the foam has little (almost no) resistance to air movement........ so your 4.24 thick foam wall isn't really going to do much at all.
It will help deaden the room - but will not do much to stop the outside world from hearing you (or you from hearing the outside world).
As I posted earlier.......... if foam is a tried and true product for isolation (as you suggest) - why is it that we don't have any rated assemblies that use (or even mention) it? Seems to me (if it worked) companies would be chomping at the bit to expand their consumer base from treatment to isolation.
Maybe you should take the physics you know and go to these companies to let them know they're doing it wrong - straighten them out - you could make a ton of money if you doubled their sales.
Nope - not suggesting they don't exist - I might be a jerk - but I'm a long ways from stupid........ what I was saying (and if you read the post you would realize this) is that "YOU CAN'T DO THIS".
No one out here is buying these units and then taking them apart to figure out what exactly the manufacturer is doing to acheive the results they're getting - and thus no one has a design to share with you.
Oh - you can think things up - develope some theories - build everything - and then find out it doesn't work worth squat. And be out all of that money you already spent - I see people do this all the time - and then come to these BBS' trying to figure out what their problem is - and me (and other people who actually do stuff like this for a living) explain to them what their problem is - and that they have to completely rip everything apart in order to fix it............ lots and lots of money just thrown away..........
Ya ever stop to think about why they (the companies like charge what they charge for these things?........... do you have any idea of the amount of money spent on R&D - followed by testing - followed by "dayam - that didn't work - back to the drawing board"...........
So I offer you something that will work - something that (if properly constructed) I can tell you exactly the results you'll get........ it isn't my problem if that's not what you want to hear......
My question on the products was an honest one - I was curious to see the specs on what you were looking at - but it doesn't matter to me either way.
But - i did do a little searching - and found a site where someone feels the same as you - and figured out how to do it himself - he even sells the plans and specs - and claims you can get exactly the same results for about 1500 less than purchasing.
On the other hand - he doesn't provide any lab data to prove what he's built - so you will still be on your own - but at least it's the type of thing you seem to be looking for.
http://www.dawbox.com/DAWBOOTH.htm
Good luck.
Rod
KevinDrummer said:Thanks, Rod
I still maintain that deadening a room can contribute significantly to the soundPROOFING of a room - especially in very small rooms. It decreases the overall sound energy that wants to get out. I guess these are called "standing waves" - but screw the theory - I have practical experience with the phenomenon and it's quite simply LOUD AS HELL!
KevinDrummer said:Rod, I get your point, but you described a very unrealistic hypothesis.
In reality and practice, treating all the surfaces with 2" or so foam would reduce the overall sound escaping by more than a couple db.
Each wall would resonate less by virtue of the attached foam, and the conducted sound would be less.
I'm sure you guys get frustrated with the eggcrate/foam questions to solve all the problems, but perhaps in the process you've downplayed the usefulness of those products.
Rod Gervais said:Kevin,
I am actually talking the most realistic situation. The testing of assemblies for Isolating Values is not done with full rooms being assembled.
Rather - each component of the assembly is constructed - sealed into the testing chamber - and tested independently.
2nd........ I am very accurate about the gain you would have with installing the foam...... this is not a dream I'm having here.
You are very mistaken sir..........
Sorry - all that the attachment of foam to the wall would succeed in doing would be to slightly change the center frequency of the wall - so it would transmit more of a different frequency - but it would not give you a weighted average drop of a couple of DB.........
I really am sorry - but it just doesn't work the way you think it does.
Eggcrates are usefull for putting eggs in - they have no value whatsoever in either sound isolation or treatment (or any other area of construction - and I've been doing this my entire adult life).
Foam is a very usefull product in the area of sound treatment - and Aurelex has some of the better foam products on the market....... but (regardless of whether you choose to believe the truth or not) they are not isolation products.
HOWEVER - I do not feel like beating this particular horse any longer....... if you want cheap foam - look at "foam by mail" ..... they also sell on ebay....
BUT - understand that this is not the same product being provided by Auralex or other reputable foam acoustic companies.......... it does not have the same densities - tis a case of "you get what you pay for".
As for other "cheap" sources of foam - if it isn't acoustic foam then it's just death waiting to happen....... so no matter how cheap you get it - it isn't worth it. If it is not flame treated for installation as an interior finish - then it's going to create a death trap.
Ask the people who died in Rhode Island........ they'll tell you just how fast it goes up in flames.
Good Luck,
Rod