acoustic guitar: plugged in for more bass?

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slide_blues

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OK, I'm going to be buying some gear for recording mainly acoustic guitar stuff:

Fostex VF80
DMP3
MXL 603s (2)

I've been messing around with a borrowed cassette 4 track and shure beta 58 in the meantime and discovered that by plugging in my fishman prefix plus straight in, and using the other channel for the mike, I get more low end thump on the bass strings. I don't really like the piezo sound, but blending the two gave natural mike tone with more bass. No outboard pre was used.

If I get the above setup, I can only record 2 channels at once, so having a stereo mike setup + plugged in is not possible.

Soooo,

Anyone feel they get enough low end by using only stereo mics?

Anyone use a combination plugged and mic(s) for acousic?

Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance. This is a great forum.
 
Proximity effect maybe ?

Try putting one of the mics in real close to the body, maybe about 2" away at the twelfth-fourteenth fret or so pointing towards the soundhole. Many mics have an exaggerated low end response this close to a source I beilieve.

You could experiment with moving the other mic further away, and play with panning to create a wider sound.

Anybody know if the 3:1 rule applies to recording acoustic, or is that mainly applicable to drums ?
 
Yes, mic placement is key. I suppose it's not a fair comparison, as the 603s may have better bass response than the shure. It's just that with the eq on the fishman, it's possible to get a thumping low end.

I play a lot of open (lowered) tunings and like a full sound, especially if there's no other instruments other than another guitar track or two. Acoustics and resonators are the main thing I'll be recording w/ occasional vocals by other people.

I suppose the other option is a mixer rather than the dmp3, that way I can blend two mics and the direct signal. I've read all the mixer pre vs. dmp3 threads, however, so I don't think I want to go that route...
 
The MXL's will definately have more low end than the shure if they are the ones I am thinking about ( condensers made by Marshall ? ) But it sounds like you are going for a more extreme bottomy effect, in which case you will probably need eq of some sort, be it on your guitar or otherwise.

To answer your question anyway, I find I can usually get more than enough low-end (often too much) when I mic an acoustic with small or large diagragm condensers. I just depends on where you put 'em !
 
If you haven't bought the Fostex yet, think about it for a moment. I'm not into Fostex bashing because the company is doing something nobody else has done - bring recording capabilities to more of us. I respect it a lot.

It's just that you have an EQ issue and the VF80 has been pretty roundly criticized for its lack of EQ choices, particualrly for the bottom end.

If you're going new, why not take a gander at the Korg D1200 before you decide. With the CD writer, there's not a big difference in price, and I think the Korg has an edge on the Fostex. The D1200 MkII is about a thousand bucks - that's two hundred more than the Fostex, with better A/D converters, two decent preamps, and with the DMP3, you can be recording four tracks at once.

The DMP3 will help a lot, no matter what you get, and the MXL is a great mic for this use. But if money is an issue, consider waiting on the DMP3. With the Korg, you may not need it just yet.
 
The DMP3 and the two 603s will give you a wonderful guitar sound. If you like bass, just stick one of the mics near the soundhole. Believe me, you will get all of the bass you want. I generally do not like the sound of plugged in steel string acoustics.

If at all possible, I would avoid cheap recorders and use a computer to record.
 
Thanks for the help.

Treeline, the Korg sounds great, but I can get a new VF80 from jdsound for $550, although with the dmp3 that's $750 total, assuming the Korg will not "need" the dmp3, that's close in price.

tdukex, my current pc is a PII, running win95. I don't think I want to spend any money upgrading it, however I suppose for around $1000, it's possible to get a new pc with a quality soundcard?
 
You will need the preamp whichever recorder you decide to use. I always have to cut the bass when recording my acoustic, escpecially if I have some other instruments, like bass, in the mix. I have mixed the quacky piezo with a 603 before with pretty good results - gets a unique sound. I've got an old Yamaha 12 string that I converted to a 6 string "dobro"....set the strings way up high. I use the piezo by itself with that thing and it's killer. Cuts through anything you stick it with.
 
slide_blues said:
OK, I'm going to be buying some gear for recording mainly acoustic guitar stuff:

Fostex VF80
DMP3
MXL 603s (2)

I've been messing around with a borrowed cassette 4 track and shure beta 58 in the meantime and discovered that by plugging in my fishman prefix plus straight in, and using the other channel for the mike, I get more low end thump on the bass strings. I don't really like the piezo sound, but blending the two gave natural mike tone with more bass. No outboard pre was used.

If I get the above setup, I can only record 2 channels at once, so having a stereo mike setup + plugged in is not possible.

Soooo,

Anyone feel they get enough low end by using only stereo mics?

Anyone use a combination plugged and mic(s) for acousic?

Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance. This is a great forum.
Click to expand...

The SHure 58 is not the right mic for getting good solid bottom. Wait for the MXLs and see the difference.
 
AKAI DPS16 W/ BURNER

This will blow the doors off a VF80. It has the current O/S version.

You can upgrade the drive with an ADA drive easily. The only thing I don't like about mine is a whiny fan. The A/D converters are still the best on the market for transportable units and the preamps are killer. See if you can snag it for $500.
 
AKAI DPS 16!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a proud owner of this machine, and it is absolutely beautiful!!! You can record 8 trax simultaneously and the editing features are easy to use. Also has a ton of effects on board which are alright, they serve their purpose!! I have gotten some amazing recordings out of this thing along with an AT3035 and some 57's. mostly acoustic rock type shit! I would recommend this to anyone wanting to get a portable digital recorder~ peace
 
You know, it seems to me, that most of the time, I'm trying to remove bass from my acoustic guitar stuff... And I like bass! But ussually acoustics have TONS of it... It must be that the SM58 is really not geared towards that at all... As soon as you get those condesers, your next question will probably be: "How do I get rid of some of this bass?" ;)
 
I have a set of MXL 603s and they need almost no eq on acoustic guitar. Sometimes I boost the lower midrange a hair. They are pretty startling if you're used to dynimic mics.
 
I'm looking at the Computer Depot ad here in San Diego. For $250 you can get a complete computer with case and power supply: Duron 1300 with 128 MB DDR, 30GB Maxtor HD, CDRW, 1.44 floppy, 32MB video card.

Toss in a $150 M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 sound card and you have a kick-ass recording computer for $400.

This blows away the computer I was recording on just 2-years ago.

Computers are not expensive.
 
slide_blues said:
This is a discontinued item, correct?
Click to expand...

Yes. The DPS16 went out of production in 2002, about the same time onboard CD/R became the standard. There is no place in the unit ready to accept a CD/R and they probably didn't have enough market share to retool. Instead they focused on the DPS24, a unit that is making mincemeat out of anything in its path. The DPS16 has the same preamps and D/A converters, I understand. it's a sleeper.

Street price, used, is a thousand bucks without the burner, about 1200 with. The HD to look for is anything greater than 10 GB; the one I gave you the link to is a 10 GB, which should go for about $700. The smaller drives tended to clank a little with disk searching, and AKAI immediately moved to a 20 GB drive. So the 10 GB units are the oldest. They're identical otherwise.

The current operating system is v3.02, I believe. It is stable and powerful. All kinds of punch for the dollar. A 10GB unit with a CD/R for $ 500 - 600 is a steal.
 
That does put a twist on things, tdukex. I really need to think about which way to go. I do have my original post answered, however - no need to go direct, expect good things from the 603/dmp3 combo. Thanks to all again, this forum is the best!
 
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