Acoustic guitar pickup - need suggestions

  • Thread starter Thread starter mrbowes
  • Start date Start date
mrbowes

mrbowes

New member
I want to play my acoustic guitar live. Instead of using a mic, I'd like the freedom of using a pickup.

I have a 70s Aria small body guitar. It doesn't have a huge sound, but it's well balanced and stays in tune for days.

I'd prefer a pickup that's less than $100. I'd also prefer it if it was easily installable/removable. I don't want to do any serious surgery on my guitar, and I'd rather not go through the expense of having a tech do it (unless it's pretty much required for decent tone out of a pickup).

I'm pretty ignorant regarding acoustic guitar pickups, so please offer me your suggestions. Thanks so much.
 
Consider raising your budget just a bit and you will get better results for comparatively small increase. Also to do the job properly requires that you need to fit a jack socket. This normally done by swapping ou the end pin. Unless your comfortable working on guitars I would strongly suggest you get a tech to do this for you. Ther are other solutions but they involve attaching the jack to the soundhole or having the lead trail of the body somewhere and are not ideal.

The most common system I fit these days and they get rave reviews by most players are theLR Baggs Ibeam or the Fishman Matrix system or Rare Earth. There are others that have got excellent reviews. They are above your price range but I'm afraid you will soon become frustrated with the shortcomings of the many cheaper brands out there.

Others cheaper pickups that are worth investigating but I have not personaly played but have fitted would include Bartolini 3A or 3AV, Seymour Duncan SA-1 Acoustic Tube, the Seymour Duncan Woody, the Dean Markley Pro-Mag, and the DiMarzio Quickmount. Not sure if the latter is still available. They list the Super Natural Plus as their main acoustic soundhole pickup these days. Ive mnever seen or fitted one but it seems as simpla as any other.
 
muttley,

Thanks for the suggestions - I'm looking into them now.

The Fishman Rare Earth looks interesting, but I can't tell if the jack is installed in the end pin or if it just dangles off of the soundhole. I assume I would need some kind of preamp to use with this pickup. I could use my Little Labs IBP...

I'm actually thinking of just looking at an inexpensive acoustic/electric now for playing live. My Aria cost less than $200 (tho I feel it was a bargain for the quality of the materials/construction), so spending $200+ on a pickup system seems silly.

Any good suggestions for acoustic/electrics in the < $400 range. I want to buy used, and I'd rather buy a Japan or USA made guitar, though I'm open to other suggestions.
 
The Rare Earth is a plug and play solution It should give you a good line level signal. I still use them on a couple of guitars live and don't have any problem with output. The jack is in the end pin and comes supplied with the fixing kit. One advantage of a decent soundhole pickup is that you can fit it to any future instrument you get so its not really a daft investment.
 
muttley600 said:
The Rare Earth is a plug and play solution It should give you a good line level signal. I still use them on a couple of guitars live and don't have any problem with output. The jack is in the end pin and comes supplied with the fixing kit. One advantage of a decent soundhole pickup is that you can fit it to any future instrument you get so its not really a daft investment.
Click to expand...


Or, if you are going to get a soundhole pickup, you could get the best. The Rare Earth is OK, but it is only a little less expensive than the Sunrise, which is hands down the best sounding magnetic acoustic pickup. And it has been for as long as it has been on the market, which is about 20 years now. Every one is hand made by the guy who came up with them, Jim Kaufman. The list of people who use them is impressively long, and includes Amiee Mann, Keith Richards, and my good friend Leo Kottke. I don't know about the rest, but Leo has gone back and forth on pickup systems for decades. Whenever anything new comes out, he tries it, and in the end he ALWAYS comes back to the Sunrise. If you want a magnetic pickup, do try to get a Sunrise. (Oh, and you can use it without a preamp, but you will be much happier if you use something. Personally I like the Sunrise buffer box a lot, but I also like the Baggs Para D.I. and I know a lot of guys - including Leo - like the Pendulum pre.)


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
I'd forgotten about the Sunrise mainly because we don't see a lot of them over this side of the pond. From the little I've seen of them they are well worth investigating.....clear and bright with good seperation. Stll prefer the IBeam but they are a lot harder to fit for a novice as they are not soundhole mounted. They would still be my pickup of choice.
 
I have the Ibeam Active and for the money it sounds great, was a really easy install (though they tell you in writing that the warranty is void if you don't have a pro tech install it), and though I've used it for a couple years now, still haven't had to change the battery...It's plugged in every day...I also had a D. Markley something-or-other soundhole PU, paid $70 bucks for it, and though it didn't suck, it sucked anyway...

Eric
 
Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I like the idea of the Sunrise because it seems to have stood the test of time, which is always a good thing.

I'm thinking of picking up a Fender Acoustasonic amp. Do you think the Sunrise pickup would output enough level for the amp, or would I need to run a preamp in between?

I'll check out the Lace pickups.
 
muttley600 said:
I'd forgotten about the Sunrise mainly because we don't see a lot of them over this side of the pond. From the little I've seen of them they are well worth investigating.....clear and bright with good seperation. Stll prefer the IBeam but they are a lot harder to fit for a novice as they are not soundhole mounted. They would still be my pickup of choice.
Click to expand...


I've always got a few of Sunrise pickups in stock (actually, I need to order some pretty soon). We've been a dealer pretty much since day one.

One of those advantages to living in the USA, I guess.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
mrbowes said:
Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I like the idea of the Sunrise because it seems to have stood the test of time, which is always a good thing.

I'm thinking of picking up a Fender Acoustasonic amp. Do you think the Sunrise pickup would output enough level for the amp, or would I need to run a preamp in between?

I'll check out the Lace pickups.
Click to expand...



It would work until you can afford to get a preamp for it. I would still suggest getting something for it (the Sunrise Bufffer Box is a really great unit).

But if you are looking for something which has stood the test of time, you might also look at the Fishman Matrix. They haven't been out as long (10-15 years, or so), but they are still a great pickup. They are also the best selling acoustic pickup on the market, and by a lot. I sell more of them than everything else combined, and to my mind they have the best set of compromises, which is of course all you will ever get with an acoustic pickup. They have a good sound, and excelent feedback rejection for playing in loud situations. They are also expandable, should you need that in the future. You can easily add an internal microphone to a Fishman system. Even without the mic though, 90% of my customers are very satisfied with the Matrix Natural I.

To my mind, in most situations the iBeam doesn't have enough feedback rejection, and while it does sound different than an undersaddle pickup, I don't know that it sounds better. I sell a lot of them, but mostly just to guys with reissue through-saddle Martins, where an undersaddle pickup is just not a good option.

The most important thing to remember, and what I tell ever customer at the start of the pickup discusion, is that there is NO pickup on the market which will sound like your guitar. They are all compromises. They will make your guitar louder, and that is a very good thing, but it will always sound different from your guitar. Keep that in mind, and you may find something that will work for you.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light - thanks so much for your informative replies. I'm going to check out the Fishman Matrix now, too.

This pickup is simply for amplifying my guitar live. My guitar doesn't sound that good anyways, so I'm not all that concerned with it reproducing it's tone to the T. I just need a decent sounding and reliable connection from my acoustic guitar to an amplifier (like a Fender Acoustasonic).

Thanks again.
 
Light said:
I've posted a lot on this subject in the past, and instead of just retyping it;

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=99527

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=104945

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=111376

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=142483

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=174186




Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Click to expand...

Maybe you could catalog these :) or maybe JamFesters should sell it- help defray costs of the next Fest... :o
 
I've had a Whitman internal condenser mic (with a tuner) before (I had a Martin D15 then) and I liked its sound for recording or live.

I am having Washburn ROMP internal mic installed on my guitar (different one). I will probably soon comment on it. It was really cheap and the cable jack/strap pin is all part of the thing and only requires enlarging the pin hole and screws into it semi-permanently. It cost me less than $30 shipped. I hope I like it :)
 
mrbowes said:
I want to play my acoustic guitar live. Instead of using a mic, I'd like the freedom of using a pickup... I'd prefer a pickup that's less than $100. I'd also prefer it if it was easily installable/removable. I don't want to do any serious surgery on my guitar, and I'd rather not go through the expense of having a tech do it...
Click to expand...
I've never cared for the sound of an under-saddle transducer, and honestly, most acoustic guitars I hear amplified with one, pro or amateur, sound like crap to me even when the signal is processed well.

The solution I went with is cheap and easy and I like the sound better. The Dean Markley Artist transducer. It's a small, stick-on piezo transducer, cost $35. Sticks on easy, stays on well, and you can get different tone qualities from it by putting it different places on the bridge or soundboard near the bridge. You can also mount it inside the guitar if you want and wire it up to an endpin jack, but that's a pain and reduces its variety of uses.

However there's a trick to making it sound good. Don't use the hard stick-on putty that comes with it. Use Blue Tack soft putty instead. And don't run it directly into an amp or PA. Get a cheap Boss guitar pedal ($40-70) and run it through that, with the pedal in bypass mode. An EQ or reverb pedal would probably be the most useful type to have for amplifying acoustic gtr, but like I said, it doesn't have to be turned on, just going through it. Works great to buffer the signal and make it sound good going into an amp.

Tim
 
When looking at amplifying an acoustic guitar i think first of all you must look at the venue you play in, there's always a trade off......

Soundboard transducer probably produce the most acoustic type sound but can be very prone to feedback.

Magnetic pickup, probably the most resistant to feedback, the Sunrise needs a good preamp buffer box as its not a very high output pickup. The mags always have an element of electric guitar in the sound.

Undersaddle pickup, quite resistant to feedback but always give a ust sound in my opinion, ie compressed sound and most produce an element of quack, these pickups give a good punch to cut through a band.

I've found the best answer for me is one of these..
http://www.d-tar.com/wave_length.shtml
Blended with a soundboard transducer, eg k.k mini, this gives best of most worlds, depending on the venue, small venue more soundboard, large venue less sbt and more ust..
Just a note the Wavelength produces less quack and compression due to the 18 volt preamp, which gives more headroom to the signal.
Well only my findings!
Vikki(uk)
 
Vikki said:
Soundboard transducer probably produce the most acoustic type sound but can be very prone to feedback.
Click to expand...
Hmmm... personally I wouldn't say "very", I'd say "slightly more". I think it's a more-than-fair tradeoff for a more natural sound. But like everything musical, YMMV.

BTW, I can run my soundboard transducer into my 100 W SWR Cal Blonde and crank it up to an uncomfortable level and not have feedback, even in a small room.

Tim
 
Light has posted a few links to previous discussions and having read them I can only add that in general I have to agree with everything he says in them. Lets get some perspective

The acoustic guitar like any acoustic instrument functions as a result of all its component parts. The sound you here when you listen to an acoustic good or bad is a result of many things. You hear the result from either up and behind the guitar as a player of from a way off as a listener. By picking a signal from a localised spot on the guitar as most pickup sytems do you are excluding all the subtle nuances that your ears hear. This is why mics come closest to the true sound because they are "hearing more" of the true sound. Any system you put up close to the guitar is going to get further from the true sound. Just try putting your ear up close and see what you hear!!

In general terms no two parts of a guitar are moving in the same direction at the same speed at the same time. That is the nature of wood and acoustics period. The way that every part of the guitar moves is responsible for what you hear, and that dosent even cover room acoustics and psycho-acoustics. To select a small part of the instrument and expect it to report back on every subtle movement on the instrument is unrealistic

All the systems out there are designed to give a good functional representative acoustic sound and many perform very well. They are all homogenised however. The pickup has as much to do with the sound as the guitar and they are designed to work well in a wide variety of applications You can get a good sound from your acoustic using many of the pickups mentioned here but it is not the sound of your guitar. The sound of an acoustic guitar is way to complex to capture with any of the devices currently available. Be prepared to compromise and shoot for a good representation of an acoustic guitar that works in the application you are using it.

I like the Fishman systems because they are reliable and have never let me down. I like the IBeam because it sounds better to me on a wound G string where other pickups often slip up. They do have a lower feedback threshold however. By choice I use the Fishman playing in louder bands and the IBeam solo and small band work. I recognise that both a not perfect but they work for what I need them to do better than others...
 
The sound of an acoustic guitar is way to complex to capture with any of the devices currently available.
Click to expand...
Of course amplifying a piezo on one small area, or an internal mic, is only going to give an approximation of a guitar's real sound. No one's arguing for the superiority of piezos over good mic technique for realistic capture. The OP is about how to amplify an ac guitar inexpensively.

Tim
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top