acid pro 4.0 query

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drummersteve

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ok, so my friend has a simple recording set up, a digital 8 track, microphone, linked up to his soundcard, using acid pro 4.0. he mics his fender amp up and recordes the guitar thru the 8track. im thinking of getting a mixing desk, with more than just 2 inputs (i play the4 drums) so i can then mic my kit up and record it all simaltaneously. pretty obvios really. the only thing is, as ive never used acid pro 4.0 for recording more than one input at a time, im not completley sure whether it is possible? when ive done recordings with him, clicking the "record" button creates one new track which the guitar creates as its recorded. basically, what im asking all the acid users is, is it possible to record two or more inputs simaltaneously in acid pro 4.0? if so, i need to start looking into different multitracking software! thanx, steve.
 
Only through a mixer. Acid can only record one track at a time (either stereo or mono). You'd have to submix the drums going into the computer, and that doesn't leave you with a lot of conrtol after it's recorded. Even though I love Acid and it has its uses, this ain't one of 'em.
 
sound forge?

damn, that kinda sucks, as one of the main reasons for me getting this equpiment is to record drums, and i have acid there for me free of charge! can recording more than one track at once be done in sound forge? if so, i could use it to record all the tracks at the same time for the drums, and mix the drum tracks in sound forge and then copy each track into acid? or even mix each track in acid and use sound forge purely for recording more than one track at once? is that a possibility?
 
ive had another idea. im guessing this could be done. if i wer to get each mic into seperate inputs from drums for example, i could give them their own eq, fading, panning etc. then, i could route all the tom mics to a buss and sort their overall level out, same with overheads etc, and then take these into another buss and get the main overall level in stereo. i think that is vaiguely right. this way ive mixed the whole drum track down into one L+R output, going into my soundcard into acid. although this means i cant do much with it within acid, as long as it is a decent board which im dealing with, i can stil get the drums into acid?
 
Sound Forge is purely an editor. It doesn't do multitrack.

That last idea seems like too much work! I think you'd find it a lot easier just doing a submix. If you can take the time, you CAN get a good drum sound this way. And will have some level of control if you use envelopes on the track.
 
ok thanks alot. although i know quite a bit about mixing from research, im not too sure what you mean by submixing. apologies from my inexperience, but everyone didnt know at one point. i was wondering if you knew of any artuicles explainging what you mean?

and yes, i agree when you say its a lot of hassle to do what i suggested, but i assume this would work?

thanks again, steve
 
Submixing would mean .... using your mixer to mix all of the channels that you use to mic your drums prior to the stereo signal being sent to the computer. Somewhat the same concept as mixing the various tracks within a DAW, only you won't have separate tracks for each mic. You will only end up with one stereo track (the Left and Right outputs of the mixer). Doing a submix requires that you get the best sound and stereo image that you can via the mixer itself. The drawback to doing it this way is you are limited to the effects processing that you can do in the box, as it's going to effect the whole drum kit. You can, however, add the effects you desire at the mixer via outboard gear and inserts or sends. But, if your wanting to use all your plugins for adding effects to the drum mix, you would really need a multitracking software like Vegas (if your hell bent on using Sound Forge/Sony products) and a multi-input soundcard.
If you are a skilled player, you could multitrack the drum section. This would require some skillful micing and several repeat performances.
First you would mic just the kick and snare and pan them hard opposite of each other and record them as two mono tracks. Though for this to be the most effective for isolation of the pieces of the kit, you would need to "air drum" the other pieces (only hit the snare and kick).
Now put up some overheads for the cymbals, pan them for a proper stereo image and record just the cymbals to a stereo track (air drum the rest).
Now the toms. Use the overheads or close mic them .... pan them for the stereo image and record them to a stereo track (air drum the rest).
Now all you have to do is record the hi-hats ...... :cool:
 
thanx crankz, what you have said does make sense to me. im thinking as i am only starting out at the minute, submixing within the mixer and then sending only a stereo signal into the computer would probably be fine now. i have a nice sounding kit (Tama Rockstar Custom) nicely skinned up with remo ambassador heads, it already sounds really nice without shit loads of e.q., etc. obviously, a better way to do it would have each input from each mic seperate within the computer, making the drum sound a lot more manipulative, but this means getting the new software. i figure, as i can get acid pro 4.0 for free, it would probably make more sense sticking to acid for now, as i am also quite familiar with it, and get used to the equipment i intend to buy. also, it gives me a chance to experiment in different ways. and then, maybe once the cash has built up again, i could buy some multitracking software which enables me to do what i originally intended?

as regards to multitracking software, do you have any suggestions as to which packages are good, just as a future reference for myself (preferably the software can record more than one track simaltaneously for the use of drum recording for example!)

thanks alot guys, more replies would be great,

Steve
 
All mutitracking software does pretty much the same thing. The differences are mostly in how they're laid out and what bells and whistles they have. Try demos if you can just to see how they operate. I hear n-track is an excellent program to begin with, and it's under $50 for the full version.

I always recommend Vegas, but it ain't cheap!
 
n-track eh? the main thing i want to know is whether it can record more than one track at a time, for the sake of drums this. all though there are other ways, it would be good to be able to do it the way i originally intended on doing so. so can n-track allow you to record more than one track at a time? thanks for all this help anyway!
 
Yes! Hello, that's what multitrack means! The number of tracks you'll be able to record at one time will all depend on your soundcard. Demo and some "lite" versions of multitrack software will limit the total number of tracks you can have in any given project. Most full version ones will let you record an unlimited number of tracks. Gotta love it.

Oh, and here's n-track's website: http://www.ntrack.com/ I've never tried it, but people who use it love it. There's a board here dedicated to n-track users. I got a demo version with my second Layla, and when I get some free time I'm gonna try it out.
 
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haha of course, my bad! but then, that means that acid isnt mulitracking software, as it cant record more than one track at the same time? bleh, is the term "multitracking" defining that more than one track can be recorded AT THE SAME TIME or that more than one track can be dealt with within acid, but they must be recorded seperatley?

if i wasnt fond of the editing tools within n-track, im guessing i would be able to save the tracks and then copy them into acid? this is, if i prefer using acid to edit the tracks i record, i may prefer n-tracks when it comes down to it!

and yes, im still looking into soundcards with multiple inputs, looking at the delta range, 44 and 1010...

cheers again, steve
 
drummersteve said:
haha of course, my bad! but then, that means that acid isnt mulitracking software, as it cant record more than one track at the same time?
Click to expand...
Correct.
bleh, is the term "multitracking" defining that more than one track can be recorded AT THE SAME TIME or that more than one track can be dealt with within acid, but they must be recorded seperatley?
Click to expand...
For the term "multitracking" it's about recording more than one track at the same time. But you are also correct that Acid can only record one track but can play back many. So I guess it's some kind of hybrid. I don't know if there's a term for that. I'm currently engineering a CD for a friend of mine, and we're mainly recording and mixing in Acid. A couple of songs have been done in Vegas to record live drums.

if i wasnt fond of the editing tools within n-track, im guessing i would be able to save the tracks and then copy them into acid? this is, if i prefer using acid to edit the tracks i record, i may prefer n-tracks when it comes down to it!
Click to expand...
Absolutely, but you have to be careful that your tracks will align correctly in Acid. The latest song we're working on was started in Acid with the idea of using drum loops and samples. But after awhile it was clear that real drums were needed and we'd have to switch to Vegas. Since Acid is tempo-based, it was easy enough to line them up when we imported them to Vegas. Going the reverse route - from n-track to Acid - could be problematic unless you disable the "automatic Beatmapper on import" function.

All in all I'd say you've got the picture.
 
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Thats awesome. Also, for $50, i think its well worth investing in n-tr\acks even if i use it just to record live drums! I'm sure il fnid many more uses for it though.

Thanks alot for all your help MadAudio, and crankz for that matter. I would have been annoyed if it had come down to me buying the stuff not realising what i did! Thanks again, much appreciated!

Steve
 
Yup .... not a problem.
By the way .... I use n-Track all the time and love it.
All the DirectX Plugins that you have from Acid can be used in n-Track.
As a matter of fact .... plugins from numerous different programs will work, provided they are VST or DirectX and not in some proprietary form.
Bear in mind .... like what Mad said ..... multitracking is not only dependent on the program you use, but your soundcard as well. If you only have a two channel card .... well .... you can only track two tracks at a time. Whereas if you have a multi-input card like a Delta 1010 or what I use a MOTU 828mkII, you'll be able to do quite a few track simultaneously.
Also, if you have a 24 bit capable card and decide to use n-Track .... you will want to get the 24 bit version. Though it's still only $69.
Good luck.
 
Thats another thing (sorry, last question!). Depending on whether a soundcard is 16bit, 24bit or whatever, does this mean that some programs wont be compatiable? well not "non-compatible", more "not get the best quality sound"? Hmm, not a very good explanation of what i mean...

You (crankz) said if i get a 24bit soundcard il need to get the 24bit version of n-tracks. now i understand that fine. Is the same with all multitracking software though? (ie acid), or do some programs have 16 and 24 bit versions, and some run on either? May seem a very obvious question, but i must learn more about soundcards, its the one areas of recording in which i lack knowledge in really! Thanks again,

Steve
 
No need to apologize. You're asking important questions, and I think it's great that you're really thinking about this instead of just plunking down your money on whatever (a mistake I've made more than once! :D ).

I would recommend getting a 24-bit soundcard no matter which software you go with. 24-bit, I think, is the "prosumer" standard these days. The difference in quality between 16-bit and 24-bit is noticeable. Most 24-bit soundcards can also deal with 16-bit audio. But a 16-bit card can't handle 24-bit audio.
 
MultitrackStudio and n-Track are the only ones that I know of that come in two separate bit flavors.
There may be others, I just don't know.
Most of the high ticket proggies will support multiple formats, but yet you pay a pretty price for those ... $550 for Vegas and $1400 for Nuendo. You do at least get some decent plugins for that price as well.
Thats one drawback of n-Track .... not many bundled plugins, but there are a great number of quality free plugins out on the net and $69 bucks ain't a bad price for all of the features that come with it.
 
yep this all makes sense... thats not a sarcastic comment by the way!
thanks for all your help guys, i know what to look for now in soundcards a bit more,. obviously as the years go by my knowledge will hopefully increase!

ok, just one more question!! im guessing that you can have more than one soundcard hooked up in one computer, by the looks of things that people have said on this forum anyway. as im not buying anything yet i dont need 2know how to hook them up, but one thing is can you have two soundcards of different companies, makes or watever hooked up together? or must they both be of the same make to be compatiable ie a delta 1010 and a delta 66?

also, im assuming that if you are going to have two soundcards hooked up, that they must both be at the same bit rate?

Thanks Alot!

Steve
 
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